Lying cheating detailers

TrueDetailer said:
Let me ask all of you that are saying you do it anyways because the customer is paying for it. When vacuuming, if the rear seats were not sat in since the last time you cleaned it. Would you still spend a minute or too vacuuming nothing? This is the same concept as cleaning windows that just don't need it.
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If the customer has paid for something, and they are under the impression that they are going to get it, then yes, I would go ahead and perform whatever service they believe they are going to get. I don't do detailing for a living like some, but I do work in a field that the client may not always be able to tangibly see what service it is that they are paying me to perform - i.e. they only see a finished product. Does that relieve me of providng the services that I have implied that I am going to give them for they money? No. It's that simple to me. If you say you are going to do something, then do it. If you feel that the seats don't need to be vacuumed each week, explain that to the customer. It would be better for them to know on the front end rather than finding out someway later and thinking you are ripping them off.
 
I have to agree that there are some people out there that are just in it to make some money and get out. For them it is not a legitimate business and what I mean about that is they don't have a license, insurance and pay taxes on that business.

This is my full time gig (3 years now) and my intention is for it to go to the next level within 2 years to a full shop with mobile service.

I have a guy around town (another so called detailer) that every time he sees me he calls me to see what I charge for washing. I tell him and he always tells me that he charges more and that he gets its all the time and that I should raise my prices because it is better for all of us. Not sure what his return client business is like but I am not into gouging my customers to make money I am in it to have them call me back or use my services from week to week or whatever they are comfortable with.

My feeling is that I do the best job that I can on each and every vehicle and for my return clients I am always throwing something extra in just to keep them coming back.

Kenny
 
Back to the original post about the windows and "hack," might it be possible that he was trying to "get some dirt" on you? Maybe he was hoping that you'd say "yeah" and he'd be able to use that to gain future customers from you. Also, maybe he doesn't skip the windows, has clients that he's "proven" to, and is looking to see if you say that to other customers, so he can deny it "and verify" with these other customers. Just throwing an alternate possibility out there.
 
Big Leegr said:
Back to the original post about the windows and "hack," might it be possible that he was trying to "get some dirt" on you? Maybe he was hoping that you'd say "yeah" and he'd be able to use that to gain future customers from you. Also, maybe he doesn't skip the windows, has clients that he's "proven" to, and is looking to see if you say that to other customers, so he can deny it "and verify" with these other customers. Just throwing an alternate possibility out there.
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you can never tell these days....lol
 
JaredPointer said:
If the customer has paid for something, and they are under the impression that they are going to get it, then yes, I would go ahead and perform whatever service they believe they are going to get. I don't do detailing for a living like some, but I do work in a field that the client may not always be able to tangibly see what service it is that they are paying me to perform - i.e. they only see a finished product. Does that relieve me of providng the services that I have implied that I am going to give them for they money? No. It's that simple to me. If you say you are going to do something, then do it. If you feel that the seats don't need to be vacuumed each week, explain that to the customer. It would be better for them to know on the front end rather than finding out someway later and thinking you are ripping them off.
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I couldn't agree with this post more! If the area that they requested is clean, I would either let them know beforehand or discount them with an explination afterwards. I would be furious if I knew that I was paying for something that wasn't being done. The first core value in the US Air Force is integrity. I've found it beneficial to use it in civilian life as well.
 
Amen to that. I consider myself to be of a dieing breed. many people say that chilvary & integrity is dead and I think of myself as that knight in shining armor who fights for what is right. I even tell my customers the name of the products that I am using. (If they ask) I'm not in this just to make money I am into detailing because it is were I take refuge from the troubles of the world. I am at piece while I work on someone's vehicle or my on. I take my time and make sure that everything is done right. The only problem is I have a hard time not doing anything extra, so I try and talk my customer's into regular maintainence plans instead of the one detail then they wash and do whatever else.

Integrity is everything to me!
 
JaredPointer said:
If the customer has paid for something, and they are under the impression that they are going to get it, then yes, I would go ahead and perform whatever service they believe they are going to get. I don't do detailing for a living like some, ... If you say you are going to do something, then do it. If you feel that the seats don't need to be vacuumed each week, explain that to the customer. It would be better for them to know on the front end rather than finding out someway later and thinking you are ripping them off.
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audiboy said:
I couldn't agree with this post more! If the area that they requested is clean, I would either let them know beforehand or discount them with an explination afterwards. I would be furious if I knew that I was paying for something that wasn't being done. The first core value in the US Air Force is integrity. I've found it beneficial to use it in civilian life as well.
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I'm not going to argue with you on what you do, but I am going to offer a different perspective. Take it FWIW.

Given the example cited, I am going to be in the backseat checking the seats, floorboards, package tray. I'm going to have my hose nozzle in hand while I do this. I'm also normally doing at least a damp wipe of the seats/panels etc. as well. If a thorough "deep" vaccuming of the area is not warranted, I'm not going to offer a discount for the maybe 10 or so minutes that I don't spend. Likewise if I have to spend an extra 10-20 minutes doing extra vacuuming (or other undetected touch ups) I'm not going to bill my customer an upcharge. As I'm certain most pros here, my fees are time based, yet rarely do I hit those estimated times exactly, so if it takes me a little less time that's good and if it takes me a little more time that's OK as well.

audiboy said:
The first core value in the US Air Force is integrity. I've found it beneficial to use it in civilian life as well.
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I'm sure you posted this with good intentions, but this came off as more than just a bit preachy and way too dramatic for the example cited.
 
I am going to speak out of the box.

Forget that this was a detailer, what if it was someone that you contracted to clean your home, and they were payed to clean your windows and vaccum your carpets, and they failed to to one or the other.
How fast would you say something and how much longer would they stay in your employ or how fast would you look to recomend them to a friend who was looking to have similar work done.

One has nothing to do with the other, even if the carpet is clean you give it a "token" go over for no other reason other than you are being paid for it.

JMHO
"J"
 
Mr. Clean said:
I'm sure you posted this with good intentions, but this came off as more than just a bit preachy and way too dramatic for the example cited.
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The simple definition of integrity is doing the right thing even though no one is looking. Preachy or not, I think it directly relates to the issue at hand.
 
Integrity is at a loss in society today, but that's neither here nor there... It relates to detailing, but it doesn't, I guess...

Like my last boss said to me...Detailing to most customers isn't about what you do, it's about what you don't do. That's what catches their eye

kbbiii said:
I have to agree that there are some people out there that are just in it to make some money and get out. For them it is not a legitimate business and what I mean about that is they don't have a license, insurance and pay taxes on that business.

This is my full time gig (3 years now) and my intention is for it to go to the next level within 2 years to a full shop with mobile service.

I have a guy around town (another so called detailer) that every time he sees me he calls me to see what I charge for washing. I tell him and he always tells me that he charges more and that he gets its all the time and that I should raise my prices because it is better for all of us. Not sure what his return client business is like but I am not into gouging my customers to make money I am in it to have them call me back or use my services from week to week or whatever they are comfortable with.

My feeling is that I do the best job that I can on each and every vehicle and for my return clients I am always throwing something extra in just to keep them coming back.

Kenny
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I've been starting out in kind of the same way. I've only been on my own for 7 months, my work has been steady, more than I thought it would be for this time of year, but I've got my hopes that I can work towards the same thing, I'd totally dig having a shop and still have a mobile service as well. I'm looking 5+ years down the road before I can even think about opening up a shop for real, but I'd like to get there. It takes a while to build up a good reputation in this business, I've seen that and I'm willing to accept the challenge,, just as you have :cheers:
 
jaybs02 said:
...One has nothing to do with the other, even if the carpet is clean you give it a "token" go over for no other reason other than you are being paid for it.
...
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Well I guess I'll just have to join in with the picking of nits :) My pricing considers the need for a thorough vacuuming. So by your definition, a "token" pass is still a short change. And that customer must be due a rebate/refund of those extra 5-10 minutes not spent vacuuming some imaginary something. The point is if you are short changing your customer(s) by not delivering quality work it will eventually catch up to you.

audiboy said:
The simple definition of integrity is doing the right thing even though no one is looking. Preachy or not, I think it directly relates to the issue at hand.
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We are obviously going to disagree on the validity of the point. :) At the risk of carrying us further off the mud track, before anyone gets too carried away with their integrity...I would expect everyone beating their chests to have never a) came to work late or left early without deducting their pay (yep even just 5 minutes, because that is basically from whence this came, b) took even 5 extra minutes on break or lunch, used company resources (pens/paper/copier/computer/internet to post on a detailing forum etc.) without reimbursing the company c) was not fully involved in company business every single minute that they are being paid. And talk about stealing...I don't even want to get started on military spending waste. :mad: Maybe apply some of that integrity when preparing a budget, or over spending with a government contractor. Dang that detailer that "cheated" his customer by 5-10 minutes doing something that didn't need to be done!
 
Mr. Clean said:
Well I guess I'll just have to join in with the picking of nits :) My pricing considers the need for a thorough vacuuming. So by your definition, a "token" pass is still a short change. And that customer must be due a rebate/refund of those extra 5-10 minutes not spent vacuuming some imaginary something. The point is if you are short changing your customer(s) by not delivering quality work it will eventually catch up to you.
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The point that I was making was that if you are charging for the service then do it, or as you pointed out adjust your price accordingly.
What Chris was referring too seemed like a regular practice for this one detailer, which is not good for the credability other detailers out there.

"J"
 
My original point about integrity is doing what is right within your control. If your views are different, so be it. I just think that it is only fair to perform the services that you're getting paid for.
 
Mr. Clean said:
I'm not going to argue with you on what you do, but I am going to offer a different perspective. Take it FWIW.

Given the example cited, I am going to be in the backseat checking the seats, floorboards, package tray. I'm going to have my hose nozzle in hand while I do this. I'm also normally doing at least a damp wipe of the seats/panels etc. as well. If a thorough "deep" vaccuming of the area is not warranted, I'm not going to offer a discount for the maybe 10 or so minutes that I don't spend. Likewise if I have to spend an extra 10-20 minutes doing extra vacuuming (or other undetected touch ups) I'm not going to bill my customer an upcharge. As I'm certain most pros here, my fees are time based, yet rarely do I hit those estimated times exactly, so if it takes me a little less time that's good and if it takes me a little more time that's OK as well.

I'm sure you posted this with good intentions, but this came off as more than just a bit preachy and way too dramatic for the example cited.
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I never stated that anyone ought to adjust your price - I only stated that you ought to be up front and honest with the customer. If they believe you are going to do something, then do it. Else, tell them you didn't do it, and why. Majority of the time, they will probably understand and be okay with it. If you don't do something they believe you are going to do, and they find out about it otherwise (i.e. in this case, maybe they see this post on DC) they are probably going to be upset, will probably not use you for return service, and they could possibly tell others that, at least in their eyes, you ripped them off - which hurts your professional reputation.

I see no benefit whatsoever from not honestly communicating with the customer.
 
When I started detailing on the side a few months ago to help pay the bills, I found that one, I bought way too much stuff to start with and two, I tried to make every car a show car. I know I gave the customers a great deal compared to a regular detail shop. But, it was a learning process and I have a better grasp on things now. I know better than try to buy and try every compound,polish and LSP out there. The old "work smarter, not harder" motto is soooo true! My customers get the whole description of services, products used and why it's important. I like to talk and would rather have a happy "educated" customer go out and tell his/her friends that "that guy that detailed my car really knows his stuff." I agree with the poster that did a little extra for the customer, folks appreciate that and tell their friends. Look at the AutoZone commercial where the guy is telling his buddies that he saved money by AZ checking his starter and letting him know it wasn't broke. SEE, treat customers like YOU want to be treated, even if it takes a little longer or you goofed on the original estiment ( like that ever happened LOL). I know better than try to turn a 8 year old beater into a prize winning show car and I tell the customer up front that yes I can probably get 100% of those scratches and swirls out, but it's going to thin your clear coat and unless you're selling or plan on repainting in a few years - go with getting 90% out. Every customer I've ever worked with was happy to just get a clean shiny car, and didn't notice those fine spider web lines until I showed it to them with flouresent or halogen lights. Think about it, my customers rarely wash their cars, most go to the coin car wash and spray. Getting it clayed, polished and sealed is a BIG deal to them, and they don't have the criticle eye that I have. That was a hard lesson to learn, but after a while I got it!
 
Junebug said:
My customers get the whole description of services, products used and why it's important. I like to talk and would rather have a happy "educated" customer go out and tell his/her friends that "that guy that detailed my car really knows his stuff."
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As I look back to when I was detailing, this was true for very few of my customers. Most just left or handed the keys over and expected a clean beautiful car when I was finished. What I did, how I did it, or what I used was of no consequense to most. A few did really watch and ask about everything :)


Junebug said:
I agree with the poster that did a little extra for the customer, folks appreciate that and tell their friends. treat customers like YOU want to be treated, even if it takes a little longer or you goofed on the original estiment ( like that ever happened LOL).
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I never gave people an estimate, only a range of price ...you never know what you will run into and other than wet sanding, there never were extras...either do the whole job right or go to someone else was how I worked.


Junebug said:
I know better than try to turn a 8 year old beater into a prize winning show car and I tell the customer up front that yes I can probably get 100% of those scratches and swirls out, but it's going to thin your clear coat and unless you're selling or plan on repainting in a few years - go with getting 90% out.
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This is very wise and I have said it to many a person:bigups, but I never called their car a beater :lol:


Junebug said:
Every customer I've ever worked with was happy to just get a clean shiny car, and didn't notice those fine spider web lines until I showed it to them with flouresent or halogen lights. Think about it, my customers rarely wash their cars, most go to the coin car wash and spray. Getting it clayed, polished and sealed is a BIG deal to them, and they don't have the criticle eye that I have. That was a hard lesson to learn, but after a while I got it!
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You have learned a lot :rockon I never showed people their cars under flouresent or halogens unless they had them in their garage. As you stated they wouldn't really know what they were looking at or for if you didn't show them under conditions that they normally do not see their car.
Give them a car that looks almost as good as it left the showroom and 99.9% will be happy return customers :ra:ra:ra:ra
 
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