looking to buy a machine polisher which one?

[Accumulator]

does this include the PC 7336 OR THE 7424?

They're basically the same; only differences are the counterweights and backing plates, both of which are inexpensive and easily changed. I have both and can't tell 'em apart now that I've changed those two components.

 

[Bert]

Correct; the Flex 3401 uses a unique backing plate setup.

Those dang Germans.:lol

 

[cshorey]

Out of curiousity Accumulator, what machines are you currently using, and for what tasks. Sounds like you have a few machines and you use them for different purposes.



chris

 

[Accumulator]

Out of curiousity Accumulator, what machines are you currently using, and for what tasks. Sounds like you have a few machines and you use them for different purposes.



chris

I currently have two rotaries (Metabo and Makita), two PCs, two Cyclos, and the Flex 3401.



I had been using the rotaries for initial/serious correction on hard clear and then finishing with the Cyclos/PCs. I recently got the Flex 3401 and I expect it to pretty much replace the rotaries; even on very hard clear the Flex 3401 seems able to do whatever's required, at least now that there are products like M105 available. For various reasons I just don't like using my rotaries and I'll be happy to replace them with the Flex.



I use the Cyclos for mild/finish polishing and applying/buffing off LSPs. Overall, the Cyclos are the machines I most *enjoy* using but they don't have the power to do really serious correction (note that I haven't tried using M105 via Cyclo, that might change my opinion). As previously mentioned (oops, I see I gotta go fix a typo) I also use the Cyclos with brushes for scrubbing carpets/floormats.



I use the PCs primarily for spot-correction and for working on vehicles whose contours are ill-suited to the Cyclos (my Jag XJS is a perfect example; there are areas on it that I simply cannot access via Cyclo, might use the Flex 3401 on it now though instead of the PC).



Note that with 4" pads the PC, much to my surprise, seems more aggressive than the Cyclo. Fitted with 3.5-4" PFW pads, and using the right products, the PC seems capable of doing pretty much whatever is required. I've removed deep RIDS, 2K sanding scratches, and other such marring from hard clear via PC (I inspected with magnification too, the marring *was* fully removed). You *do* have to use the smaller pads and the right products though. And you have to be a little careful as I've overthinned/cut through clear with the PC and small pads, even did it on to hard Audi clear. That old saying about how "the only way to damage your car with a PC is to drop the machine on the car" simply is *NOT* true when using the small pads.

 

[BigAl3]

I currently have two rotaries (Metabo and Makita), two PCs, two Cyclos, and the Flex 3401.

goodness, you have your own tool shop LOL...

 

[xbbsupra]

I'm new to the game and now thinking of buying a Flex, but wanted to make sure if it's a good device to apply waxes and sealants? Which speed would you guys recommend? Red CCS pad will do the job?

 

[Bert]

And you have to be a little careful as I've overthinned/cut through clear with the PC and small pads, even did it on to hard Audi clear. That old saying about how "the only way to damage your car with a PC is to drop the machine on the car" simply is *NOT* true when using the small pads.

How does one know if he has overthinned the clear? I realize over time you will get clear coat failure but how do you know once you have done it.



Cutting through I would imagine is pretty obvious, paint shows up on your pads as if you were polishing single stage.

 

[cshorey]

I currently have two rotaries (Metabo and Makita), two PCs, two Cyclos, and the Flex 3401.

That's quite a collection you have going there. Also thanks for the breakdown of your usage. I found it very interesting, and even a bit surprising initially that you will be using the flex to replace your rotary usage, but your explanation made a lot of sense

you have to be a little careful as I've overthinned/cut through clear with the PC and small pads, even did it on to hard Audi clear. That old saying about how "the only way to damage your car with a PC is to drop the machine on the car" simply is *NOT* true when using the small pads.

I learned this last summer the hard way. Unfortunately I had no clue how thin the paint was on my legacy (purchased used so I am guessing it was hit pretty hard with a rotary by the dealer, or it was just a super thin paint, or both. Just a guess on my part). It was my first real full car correction after buying the PC I cut through the clear in one spot with a PC and a 4" polishing pad.



chris

 

[Accumulator]

NigAl3 & cshorey- Yeah, I think I get the tool-junky thing from my dad, he always had a scad of stuff on hand and I grew up accustomed to always having just the right tool for the job.

How does one know if he has overthinned the clear? I realize over time you will get clear coat failure but how do you know once you have done it...

An ETG makes it easy to know what's going on, though I find mine to be a real PIA to use for some reason.

Otherwise, when you've overthinned the clear on a metallic (all but one of my vehicles have metallic paint) it looks different: lighter and less "rich", lacking in depth. Sometimes it only shows in certain light and from certain angles, other times it's pretty obvious.



The color has a lot to do with it, some silvers/etc. don't show this kind of thing very readily but the Byzanz (copper) on my M3 makes it *really* obvious; the carbon metallic on my GMC show it pretty much too.



And with pearl paints you sometimes get weird and *very* obvious problems when you've gone too far. Like you should expect to see basecoat color on your pads but you don't.

Cutting through I would imagine is pretty obvious, paint shows up on your pads as if you were polishing single stage.

Right. Sometimes you go *almost* through and even though you don't get color transfer you still know you blew it. The pearl is a good example: on Audi Ming Blue it went from its usual pearlescent metallic to a very dark blue with just a *hint* of pearl (or is it a hint of metallic :nixweiss ) in places where I'd gone too far.



And remember that problems can arise *long* before you actually cut through the clear. Take off more than maybe half a mil (>0.0005") and it'll probably still look OK (*for now*) but UV exposure will result in premature paint failure or at least fading (basecoat fades under the clear, esp. common with certain reds).



And yeah, I do wonder about some of the serious correction that people here do. Most of the places where I've gone too far didn't look all *that* badly marred, and I was being pretty careful to only do what was necessary to get the marring out; it can be a fine line between "not good enough for Autopia" and "time for a repaint".

 

[DetailChicago]

Shurhold Industries is coming out with one that looks pretty neat. I saw it on ShipShape TV. I have called them about it, and they mentioned it will be coming out this summer. Everything they produce seems to work very well.