looking for concensus on aio harshness

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imported_fatboy

New member
I've done a few searches trying to find out the aggressiveness of paint cleansers like P21s and Pinnacle versus Klasse AIO and it looks like there are a lot of different opinions. I'm gonna try this one more time to see if I can get a majority one way or another.



Is AIO actually a polish that will take care of light swirls on paint or would I need to use a PCL from p21s or Pinnacle to take care of the problem before going onto the Klasse twins. Thanks.
 
gb said:
I've done a few searches trying to find out the aggressiveness of paint cleansers like P21s and Pinnacle versus Klasse AIO and it looks like there are a lot of different opinions. I'm gonna try this one more time to see if I can get a majority one way or another.



Is AIO actually a polish that will take care of light swirls on paint or would I need to use a PCL from p21s or Pinnacle to take care of the problem before going onto the Klasse twins. Thanks.
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From what I've gathered, AIO is more of a paint cleanser (like Pinnacle or P21s).. but goes best with the Sealant Glaze..
 
Detailking did a great test of several commonly-used products. He applied them to a boat propeller and then took pictures of the applicator pads that he used. When the color of the propeller appeared on the pad, we knew that the product was abrasive. As I recall, AIO was fairly abrasive. It probably will take care of some minor swirls.



You might want to try using P21S or PPCL as your base coat instead of AIO. I am pretty sure that someone must have done this. I know that people have done it with Blackfire. They skipped the Blackfire Polish, used PPCL, and went straight to the Blackfire sealant.



Hope this helps, and please let us know about your results!
 
I would say Klasse AIO is more of a chemical cleaner. The abrasives, if there are any, are very mild and won't cause hazing. In fact, I believe puterbum performed a hazing test on a black Toyota panel under a couple 1000 watts of halogens and AIO indeed contained the fewest abrasives... or at least hazed the least.



I would use Klasse AIO+SG if the paint only has minor swirling and use clay+SMR+Dawn+SG if it has more swirls.



Good luck!

~bw
 
from my uses it seems that aio is just a mild cleaner, and contains some fillers that are used to fill in swirls, not totally remove them.



anyone want to test this theory? Get a mildly swirled car and see how bad swirls are before, AIO it compare the swirls, then dawn the AIO off and see if they come back.
 
But it is very mild and should not leave a haze unless you grossly misapply it. Don't put your entire weight on the pad and you should be fine. If you have actual swirls that need taking care of, go after then with a true abrasive product like 3M SMR #39009 or Meguiar's #9 2.0 or better yet Swirl-Free polish or Dual Action Cleaner / Polish. Follow up with AIO and SG away!



Nice memory, BW! You're 100% correct as usual!
 
I found AIO to be harsher than PPCL. PPCL will not remove swirls. AIO will round off very minor swirls or marring, in my opinion. Always use the mildest product you can to complete a task. Every time you use abrasives you are essentially removing scratches and putting finer ones in the paint, kind of a catch 22, and removing clearcoat, which is very thin to begin with.



<img src=http://www.fototime.com/83E9217762C00DE/orig.jpg>



EDIT: PPCL tested was the OLD version that smells like oranges. Rumor has it that it has been reformulated.........
 
In my experience, AIO is very mild but still does a good job with very light swirls and marring left over from stronger abrasives. PPCL and P21S GEPC are definitely milder, are less effective in swirl-removal, but leave a glossier surface.
 
One thing you need to realize with AIO is that it is normally applied with a fairly damp applicator, making it a dilute solution. Coupled with using less than an oz per single work in and that you should rinse and wring your sponge out, it makes for AIO being milder than it is at full strength.



From the looks of the pic, the AIO used in the test was done at full strenght with using way more than anyone would use on that small an area.
 
Water dilutes the medium in which the abrasive particles are suspended, thereby providing less of a buffer between the abrasives and the substrate in which you are applying the product.
 
while we're disussing theories, let's not forget the theory that microfiber pulls particles into it's fibers, reducing the amount of abrasives. It's the reason why we like microfiber for QD on dusty cars.
 
Steve, I thought you never QD'd, except right after a wash? In fact, if I remember correctly, you don't even feel the need to QD after a wash....right?



Also, it's not really a theory. The idea of water increasing a polish's abrasiveness was passed along to me initially by GeekySteve and I've tested extensively whether or not it was true. My conclusions? It's very true.
 
mf is what I recommend for people who must qd on dusty cars, I however do not personally.



mf's cellular structure has sites that trap particles, the abrasive particles in AIO should be no different, thus creating mechanical buffer as opposed to say using a flat cloth.



The point is the same, the test for AIO wasn't accurate to how it's usually applied, which is with a damp microfiber applicator, good or bad.



AIO is spread thin, so if the chemicals create a buffer isn't enough to protect from abrasives in the least. If you use a dime size on the whole hood it will be thin.
 
kellyrudnick said:
Does the 'dilution increases abrasiveness' idea hold true for a product that is chemically 'abrasive'?
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For AIO, it depends on if you think it's ALSO a chemical abrasive. From a chemical standpoint for any chemical abrasive though, yes.
 
first of all i never heard of a chemical abrasive.....



Second, if one was that concerned about using abrasive, just use SG instead........
 
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