Looking for a new LSP

That "long setup/cure" time for FK1000P probably has something to do with how challenging it can be to layer. People had been told it was OK to layer it right away, or at least after a day or so, but IME doing it that soon often results in those pseudo-holograms.



Bence- What's this #1 New Car Glaze? How might it compare with my old fave from Meguiar's (M05)?



rdroe- So glad I didn't come across badly...I *did* sorta call your baby (or rather, Richard's) ugly with my swipe at that no-buff layering technique :o Heh heh, I kinda think the primary end-result of that method is that Griot's sells more wax :chuckle:



The way you tried it with the spray is what I call "pseudo-spitshining" (gee, much use of "psuedo" on this thread, even for me) as it's a bit different from "true" spit-shining, which is a huge PIA compared to what we're doing here.



The pseudo-spitshine is primarily for putting on one coat of wax with improved results; real spitshining is for putting on multiple layers in one session, it's a means of negating the solvent-effect that makes rapid layering of waxes problematic. There's probably some way to combine the two approaches by tweaking something (like the product used for the "spit"), but I've always thought that machine application of LSPs is counterproductive when it comes to layering due to the more aggressive action of the machine (vs. doing it by hand as gently as possible).



I usually do the pseudo-spitshine with SpeedShine, using Meguiar's M16 for the wax, but I've tried it with other QDs and waxes too. If something goes haywire this approach can *really* bite you, leaving a wax residue that's terribly hard to buff off, so be a little careful when doing this kind of thing.



When it goes *right* it not only looks a little better, but also leaves the tiniest, most spherical beads I've ever achieved. I *think* there's a slight trade-off in that the durability seems to suffer just a bit, but it's not a huge diff.



You mentioned the "carnauba Best of Show"- is that the liquid BOS or the one in the dial-up stick? I harldy ever do this sort of stuff with liquids.
 
Meguairs ultimate paste wax over 205 used with a grey finnesse pad looks really good.



Blackfire will announce new products next month.
 
I layer 2 coats of 1KP back to back, which lasts a lonnng time. I do work then in with machine which may be why I have never had any bad luck with it.
 
I've experienced those same "psuedo-holograms" using 1000P and quickly topping with 2685. After 2685 setup and was removed, the car looked flawless in and out of the sun. I let the customer go and then met up with them again 2 days later. The "psuedo-holograms" were all over the vehicle. It looked awful. I would try and wipe them out and it seemed like an oily mess and would just push around on the paint. Took a couple of washes for that effect to go away.



Multiple coats of 1000P don't have an issue, and 2685 alone doesn't have an issue. I blamed it on humidity at the time, but now that I'm hearing others experiencing this same phenomenon, it makes sense that it could be a product of lack of curing with 1000P.
 
autoaesthetica said:
Was the 2nd coat rushed off? Meaning not given enough dry time?



I have had that happen with M21 of all things, in humidity as well
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It was rushed and the 2685 went immediately from application on the last panel to removal on the first. Probably had a total of 10 minutes of curing and in that high humidity, I'm sure it wasn't enough time. However, I did try it again at a later date giving enough cure time and the same thing happened. Again, I chalked it up to humidity, but I gave a solid 45 minutes after the last panel before removal of the first. Probably 1 hour total.
 
My issue with M21 was really bad, as in taking a good hour to get it deliverable. This was a clean surface, washed and solvent wiped, M21 applied evenly by machine left for 30 min, finger swipe test was perfect, wiped off...20 min later in sun ouch... mega smudge action. Took a lonnng time to get rid of it and to be honest the situation was perfect aside from the weather.



M21 was supposed to be an easy on/off selection because of the weather and the weather just had the upper hand that day.
 
These last few posts are just what I'm looking for. The secret weapons and combinations. I've been in the Air Force for 13 years and before we switched to the suede boots I was known for having the shiniest boots in existence. Spit shining is my specialty but I've never tried it on a car. My method with standard Kiwi wax which is very solvent heavy was to apply very thick coats one on top of the other without buffing off the previous coat. Each coat was allowed to dry to a tack but I wanted it to remain a bit gummy so that it would spread out and really sink into the pores of the leather. This usually took about 4-5 beers. Eventually, I would have a good (but soft) basecoat that effectively filled in the pores of the leather and created a uniform flat surface. At this point I would put my boots in the freezer for an hour or so which would help to sweat out a foggy layer of god knows what (probably parrafin) that would remain long after the boots returned to room temperature. I learned this trick after a few cold mornings when my perfect boots would get smeary between the chow hall and the hangar. After the cold cure I would take off the foggy layer with water, a cotton makeup applicator (like the ones you guys use to apply CQuartz) and the faintest (faintest) dab of kiwi much in the same way you would use a WOWO like Z8. Rub it in until it disappears. One more of the thinnest possible coat I could apply and I had a deep wet uniform gloss. Letting them sit overnight sometimes caused a bit of a fog but a little water again in the morning and that was all she needed. Nobody would stand next to me at roll call because I made everyone look bad. I could hold my hand above my head and count how many fingers I was holding up by looking at my boots. I had an arsenal of cotton pads sourced from several different stores because I favored a certain brand for a certain use (application, finishing and scratch repair). Since kiwi wax is so solvent heavy, I'm wondering if the method would translate to more humane car wax formulations.
 
I think these pseudo holograms are similar to the fog that would sweat out of my boots. Kind of a greasy coating that causes artifacts in the reflection? Maybe following my boot research the best solution is to apply a super, super light coat of wax using a WOWO method a day or two after a layering session. Either that or stick your car in the freezer for an hour. I'm pretty convinced that the hologramming is other waxes and/or solvents leaching out of the finish after an extended cure time.
 
Im a big FK1000p fan also. I had it on my DD for a while and decided to try it on my Corvette as well. I think I like the look better than BFWD, although its not as slick. Topping with P21s sounds like a great idea ( in fact I have some arriving tomorrow, hehe! )

But FK1000p really does give a 'thick' gloss effect, analogous to a 2nd clear coat.
 
I have been in the same boat as you are and have tried just about every product out there from the finest carnuaba's to 845 to Blackfire etc etc... I have to say that I keep ending up back with Zaino as my go to product.
 
agentf1 said:
I have been in the same boat as you are and have tried just about every product out there from the finest carnuaba's to 845 to Blackfire etc etc... I have to say that I keep ending up back with Zaino as my go to product.
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I have a feeling the same thing will happen to me but if I hadn't tried something other than megs paste I would have never found Zaino. I figure I'll give a few things a shot and see what happens. I'm getting more and more intrigued by FK1000p.
 
Interesting that some people don't have any problems layering FK1000P. Humidity is not a factor in my case.



pmnewton- I too am very familiar with spitshining footwear, and most of my experience with it involves Kiwi (mostly older stuff, the newest tins seem different, maybe VOC regs have hit there too). The pseudo-holograms I get (with FK1000P, Collinite 476S) are different from the "sweating" (or anything ele I've experienced with shoe polish) and are exteremely difficult to remove. They'd be a genuine nightmare on soft paint!
 
pmnewton said:
I think these pseudo holograms are similar to the fog that would sweat out of my boots. Kind of a greasy coating that causes artifacts in the reflection? Maybe following my boot research the best solution is to apply a super, super light coat of wax using a WOWO method a day or two after a layering session. Either that or stick your car in the freezer for an hour. I'm pretty convinced that the hologramming is other waxes and/or solvents leaching out of the finish after an extended cure time.
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That's why we use ice cold water spritzes when spit shining the car and we always use more than just enough clean MF towels for removal.
 
Accumulator said:
...Bence- What's this #1 New Car Glaze? How might it compare with my old fave from Meguiar's (M05)?...
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Accumulator, #1 has the same backbone as #300 and 303, but based on my experience, #1 has a tad more polymer, considering the curing/amino functional & protective characteristics, and absolutely no abrasives. It's a pink liquid with pleasant workability.



I haven't even seen a single drop of Meg's #5, so I can't comment on that.
 
Bence, I was thinking about applying a coat of Duragloss 501 to our CR-V and then topping it with FK 1000p, followed by a second coat of 1000p a week or two later. Getting the car ready for winter. Do you see any problems with that combo? Any suggestions?
 
akimel said:
Bence, I was thinking about applying a coat of Duragloss 501 to our CR-V and then topping it with FK 1000p, followed by a second coat of 1000p a week or two later. Getting the car ready for winter. Do you see any problems with that combo? Any suggestions?
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You will be very happy, and will perform tremendously. Great combo.
 
Bence said:
I don't see a problem with this combo at all.
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autoaesthetica said:
You will be very happy, and will perform tremendously. Great combo.
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Thanks, guys. I like to clean up the paint twice a year on the CR-V and thought I'd give DG 501 a try, given all the positive reports I've heard about its cleaning power. It is reputed to enjoy excellent durability on its own, but after the outstanding performance I experienced from 1000p last winter, I just can't allow the 501 to stand on its own.



I will also be using the 501 on my S2K later this month and will top it with Blackfire Wet Diamond. I switch to BFWD for the winter months. I'll probably sandwich Danase Wet Glaze between the 501 and BFWD. I doubt I'll see a difference, but I've got the product so I might as well use the stuff. :)
 
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