longest lasting sealant
- Thread starter 6']['9
- Start date
From what I can tell, they all make great claims. One problem with making claims like that is that they are unqualified. Is that 6 months of durability in an enclosed dust free environment or in a Nebraska winter with salted roads?
And at what defines "lasts"? Does that mean, still looks good? Or still protects?
The best that I can do is assume that most of the sealants (SG, NXT, Blackfire, UPP, Zaino, Glanz, etc.) will provide some protection and I experiment from there.
There have been some non-scientific studies and there is also the Guru Report that you can take a look at. I prefer to just tinker with different products.
And at what defines "lasts"? Does that mean, still looks good? Or still protects?
The best that I can do is assume that most of the sealants (SG, NXT, Blackfire, UPP, Zaino, Glanz, etc.) will provide some protection and I experiment from there.
There have been some non-scientific studies and there is also the Guru Report that you can take a look at. I prefer to just tinker with different products.
tom p.
Active member
...from the Dynamic Duo: Klasse! Does it last a year? Dunno. I have run it the past couple of winter seasons (Oct > April) on a daily driver and the paint has never looked so good as it does with Klasse. :up :up
I could not ask or expect more from any product. It's a total no-brainer for $40.
I could not ask or expect more from any product. It's a total no-brainer for $40.
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
Quote: It would be nice if these companies peformed their own wear tests..
~One mans opinion / observation~
In an ideal world it would be, but Klasse have consistently been a best seller in Europe/US since the ‘60s. It’s hard enough (almost impossible) to obtain tech info or even a point of contact from them let alone suggest a test like the one you suggest.
The other problem with durability, as was suggested, will it do as well in Florida sunshine as it will do in a Nebraska snow, too many variables to make it valid?
Take 99% of claims like, “will last X months, never need to wax again, etc as marketing hype (polite term for b….y lies)
~Hope this helps~
Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/
justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*
~One mans opinion / observation~
In an ideal world it would be, but Klasse have consistently been a best seller in Europe/US since the ‘60s. It’s hard enough (almost impossible) to obtain tech info or even a point of contact from them let alone suggest a test like the one you suggest.
The other problem with durability, as was suggested, will it do as well in Florida sunshine as it will do in a Nebraska snow, too many variables to make it valid?
Take 99% of claims like, “will last X months, never need to wax again, etc as marketing hype (polite term for b….y lies)
~Hope this helps~
Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/
justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*
WannaSRT-10
New member
As said before, if your an Autopian, durability really shouldnt be an issue, but if your in detailing for a business, it becomes an issue immediately.......
imported_Greg1
New member
WannaSRT-10 said:
While this is generally true because most of us have to wax, apply layers, clean obsessively, it really makes me mad when companies tout products that last 1 year, or 6 months when it is quite obvious that after 3 weeks, its gone!
What makes me even more mad is when a product has been marketed as a "durable sealant/synethetic" concoction and then it last 1 month. Then when you speak up against that product, someone indefinitely says, "Yeah, but c'mon, that doesn't matter, you're an Autopian and wax your car every waking second of the day." GO read NXT, EX, or Platinum reviews if you don't know what I am talking about.
I had Klasse on my DD for a while and the slickness and visual signs of protection were gone after about 3 months I'd say.
imported_Intermezzo
New member
WannaSRT-10 said:
Actually, I'm more inclined to believe the opposite is true. If durability isn't an issue for Autopians, then we wouldn't discuss it as much as we do....nor would so many sealants be so popular here (Zaino, Klasse, PUPP, BFII, Meg #20). Even among carnauba waxes, the subject of how long they last is brought up pretty consistently.
Also, not all Autopians live in So Cal, Texas, Arizona, etc. where detailing can easily be done year-round. For people living under a blanket of snow during the winter, I think it would be safe to say that durability becomes relatively important.
Intermezzo said:
You are the man Tony. :bow
I reject the notion that "true Autopians" don't care about durability. I've heard that repeated by a number of people and I'm frankly getting sick of it. What a load of garbage. If durability is so unimportant, then why are we talking about sealants and waxes? Just glaze your car everyday and forget it. After all, it's all just about appearance, right?
Greg said:
It's like your reading my mind Greg, awesome post. :bow
imported_Greg1
New member
Wang- durability is so so extremely subjective that it is always going to be based on users experience. While I might say Klasse only appeared to last for about 3 months, some have reported higher. There is no real way to judge if a product is still protecting the paint finish. You can use your senses to judge slickness, beading, bird bomb cleanup, etc, but these are not scientific in nature and are simply observations.
imported_BretFraz
New member
Well, if we think durability is subjective, where does appearance fit in? Talk about subjective....
At least with durability there are methods to test it. They might be unscientific but no individual enthusiast can afford a scientific test. Even if an organization conducted such a test, they'd have to sell the results to consumers to offset costs. And this medium being the internet, there aren't enough willing to pay for something they expect should be free.
I believe durability standards can be established but it takes a willing industry to set them. And its much more profitable to claim durability than it is to prove it.
In the meantime were all left trying to figure it out for ourselves with little or no formal expertise. This is why understanding product ingredients is important. If you can learn what a product is comprised of and how the ingredients work together, you can at least form a reasonable fact-based opinion of a product's capabilities. It's like assembling a chemical puzzle. Or maybe solving a murder mystery. There are clues out there, you just gotta know where to look and what to look for. Put the clues together and the truth becomes clearer. May not be perfect but its something which is a lot better than what the marketing folks would have us to believe.
At least with durability there are methods to test it. They might be unscientific but no individual enthusiast can afford a scientific test. Even if an organization conducted such a test, they'd have to sell the results to consumers to offset costs. And this medium being the internet, there aren't enough willing to pay for something they expect should be free.
I believe durability standards can be established but it takes a willing industry to set them. And its much more profitable to claim durability than it is to prove it.
In the meantime were all left trying to figure it out for ourselves with little or no formal expertise. This is why understanding product ingredients is important. If you can learn what a product is comprised of and how the ingredients work together, you can at least form a reasonable fact-based opinion of a product's capabilities. It's like assembling a chemical puzzle. Or maybe solving a murder mystery. There are clues out there, you just gotta know where to look and what to look for. Put the clues together and the truth becomes clearer. May not be perfect but its something which is a lot better than what the marketing folks would have us to believe.
[COLORx w/ MED #98]
This combo is on a 04 Vette maroon have been working great even though its a short time period.Have been raining here for a couple of days. The water seems to SHEET off the vehicle and there is not alot of build up of dirt on or around the vehicle at all.
The owner is quite pleased with the effects of this combo so far just my .02 cents of a good sealant.
This combo is on a 04 Vette maroon have been working great even though its a short time period.Have been raining here for a couple of days. The water seems to SHEET off the vehicle and there is not alot of build up of dirt on or around the vehicle at all.
The owner is quite pleased with the effects of this combo so far just my .02 cents of a good sealant.
Accumulator
Well-known member
True Autopians don't care about durability?!? Well, in some ways I'm sorta the Autopian Heretic anyhow, but *I* sure care about durability! No, not on the Jag, but on most of the others I definitely do. Life's too short....
FWIW, *MY* experience with Klasse is that numerous coats/layers of SG (I always do five or so over the course of a week and then usually just let it go) can indeed last a year under the conditions *I* experience. That includes weekly spot-claying when I wash and washing with strong wash solution (Griot's car wash). I might add another layer now and then, but I haven't on the two examples below. No, this isn't exactly scientific, but MY results *have* been consistent over quite a few years.
Example 1- The MPV gets used year-round, it gets DIRTY, and it gets washed a LOT; it's the primary dog-hauler. But the SG on it is about seven (7) months old and it's still beading like crazy. Not even starting to sheet yet. I can still feel it on the paint. Last year I let it go a year and then redid it on general principles, but it didn't actually NEED doing at that point.
Example 2- The WRX gets the same treatment and it too only needs done once a year. It doesn't get used as much as the MPV, but it sure isn't pampered.
Ohio winters aren't exactly easy on sealants, either
But both these vehicles ARE garaged, and I never let them stay dirty too long before I wash them.
FWIW, *MY* experience with Klasse is that numerous coats/layers of SG (I always do five or so over the course of a week and then usually just let it go) can indeed last a year under the conditions *I* experience. That includes weekly spot-claying when I wash and washing with strong wash solution (Griot's car wash). I might add another layer now and then, but I haven't on the two examples below. No, this isn't exactly scientific, but MY results *have* been consistent over quite a few years.
Example 1- The MPV gets used year-round, it gets DIRTY, and it gets washed a LOT; it's the primary dog-hauler. But the SG on it is about seven (7) months old and it's still beading like crazy. Not even starting to sheet yet. I can still feel it on the paint. Last year I let it go a year and then redid it on general principles, but it didn't actually NEED doing at that point.
Example 2- The WRX gets the same treatment and it too only needs done once a year. It doesn't get used as much as the MPV, but it sure isn't pampered.
Ohio winters aren't exactly easy on sealants, either
But both these vehicles ARE garaged, and I never let them stay dirty too long before I wash them.imported_Greg1
New member
bretfraz said:
Perhaps I should have interjected that durability is subjective to the eye, as well as the conditions present. This is nothing that hasn't been to death here lately though.
Bret- the main reason I said it was so subjective because as I'm sure we've all read that and I can't confirm the validity of these claims:
1. Beading isn't a sign of protection- just suface tension- this is true
2. Slickness isn't a sign of protection
3. The best "protection" doesn't bead- from limited Zaino testing, Zaino beads like crazy and is considered the forerunner of durability and protection
4. Some products sheet water on some cars, others bead (ie Accumulator said his SG is beading like crazy, on the car I had SG on for an extended period of time- it was virtually dry after a rain)
While I am probably forgetting some, our first instinct is to associate protection with beading and slickness, while in reality I can put canola oil on my car and it will be slick and bead.
I totally agree that to figure out this puzzle, one must first understand what consitutes "protection" and what things are going on with the ingredients and the cross-linking, then maybe durability will become objective once and for all!
imported_BretFraz
New member
Greg said:
I think we all can agree that both durability and appearance of car care products are subjective. It's a matter of degree but it is difficult to be objective about the results we see and experience. A primary reason it's so difficult is that we don't know *why* a product is providing the results it is. So we turn in different directions looking for answers.
I know lots of things can bead water but within the context of car waxes I think it means there is something on our cars. Whether that's a protective ingredient of some sort cannot be determined if looked at but with some detective work I think we can narrow it down. Really the only people that know for sure what causes beading are the product mfr's and almost all of them aren't talking or are saying very little.
We've got to keep digging thru this if we're going to learn anything.
imported_memnuts
New member
6']['9,
Determine what "your" definition of durability means. Is it 2 weeks, a month, 3 months, 6 months, or a year.
Pick the range that will give you peace of mind and pick a product that fits into your expectations. Read some reviews of the products that you are considering. Note the area of the country or world that the posted comments are from ( that why general location should be mandatory). I have never posted a durability review over the last 3 years. In other words look for clues that may effect durability like "Garage Queen".
Take in consideration also the appearance goals you expect and try to match them with the product you are deciding on for its durability. These two factors must match in order that you derive true pleasure from the product choosen. If the appearance you desire requires an augmenting factor take that into consideration also because must toppers have short lifespans and may disrupt the long-term protectants ability to provide long-term protection.
Do not get caught up too much with the durability idealogy in term of longevity but be more concern with the idea of paint maintenance. What must I do and what should I use in my situation to protect and maintain my finish for the amount of time I have available each week, month,year to spend in this project.
Pick a timespan.....Pick a product that meets your durability and visual needs. :wavey
Determine what "your" definition of durability means. Is it 2 weeks, a month, 3 months, 6 months, or a year.
Pick the range that will give you peace of mind and pick a product that fits into your expectations. Read some reviews of the products that you are considering. Note the area of the country or world that the posted comments are from ( that why general location should be mandatory). I have never posted a durability review over the last 3 years. In other words look for clues that may effect durability like "Garage Queen".
Take in consideration also the appearance goals you expect and try to match them with the product you are deciding on for its durability. These two factors must match in order that you derive true pleasure from the product choosen. If the appearance you desire requires an augmenting factor take that into consideration also because must toppers have short lifespans and may disrupt the long-term protectants ability to provide long-term protection.
Do not get caught up too much with the durability idealogy in term of longevity but be more concern with the idea of paint maintenance. What must I do and what should I use in my situation to protect and maintain my finish for the amount of time I have available each week, month,year to spend in this project.
Pick a timespan.....Pick a product that meets your durability and visual needs. :wavey
imported_Intermezzo
New member
blkZ28Conv said:
Edwin, very well said!! :bow :bow
i wouldnt care for this on my personal vehicle cause i can wax it any time i want. i am trying to see this from a customer prospective.
most people and i emphasize on the average joe who doesnt was their car as often as we do, so i would like to take the initiative to take care of customers cars since they dont... in other words id like to provide a customer the most durability for what theyre paying me. not something thats going to last 30 days
my idea of llong lasting would be 3 months and on ....thanks
most people and i emphasize on the average joe who doesnt was their car as often as we do, so i would like to take the initiative to take care of customers cars since they dont... in other words id like to provide a customer the most durability for what theyre paying me. not something thats going to last 30 days
my idea of llong lasting would be 3 months and on ....thanks
I agree wholehartedly, blkZ28Conv
Here is an example of my expectations for an idea:
In the interest of performance, I like a product that enables looks like a perfectly shimmering pool of color deep with no swirls or other blemishes and with perfect mirror reflectivity. The application should be easy and maintenance should be easy (light washing). The product should not change from its originally applied appearance for at least a half a year with a once a week light washing cycle. This is for a daily driver that does not get parked under tree sap but all other airborne contaminants are game. In terms of durability, depending on lifestyle, a good product in my book is something that lasts at least 6 months in most, if not all conditions (excluding extreme fallout like in a volcano eruption zone). Super cold climates with salt and super hot with fog are not uncommon in normal living so a great product has to perform at least 6 months in those extremes. I do not think that there are many products/sealants that can do all that.
Here is an example of my expectations for an idea:
In the interest of performance, I like a product that enables looks like a perfectly shimmering pool of color deep with no swirls or other blemishes and with perfect mirror reflectivity. The application should be easy and maintenance should be easy (light washing). The product should not change from its originally applied appearance for at least a half a year with a once a week light washing cycle. This is for a daily driver that does not get parked under tree sap but all other airborne contaminants are game. In terms of durability, depending on lifestyle, a good product in my book is something that lasts at least 6 months in most, if not all conditions (excluding extreme fallout like in a volcano eruption zone). Super cold climates with salt and super hot with fog are not uncommon in normal living so a great product has to perform at least 6 months in those extremes. I do not think that there are many products/sealants that can do all that.