Light Holograms Remain

B

Bill1975

New member
A few weeks ago I polished my carbon steel grey 2013 VW GTI for the first time. The routine I used was a two bucket wash, clay bar, optimum compound with a LC orange pad and PC 7424, on speed 6, followed by Optimum Polish II with a white pad on 5, and finished with Poli Seal applied with a black pad and removed by hand.

I was really happy with the results , but a few days later I noticed some light holograms in the hood. At first it looked like someone had run their hand across part of the hood but then I started to notice the Holograms over most of the hood surface. So I rewashed, and went over the hood again with optimum polish II and a white pad, this time on 4.5 with lighter pressure.

I`m still seeing the holograms, but the weird thing is, I only notice them when I`m standing in front of the car and the light is at a certain angle. I`ve checked the cars surface obsessively since the first detailing to see if I can see any swirls or spots I missed. Everything looks fine, even the hood, and then a few days later I can see the holograms again. It seems most noticeable around 3-4pm in bright sunlight. Otherwise they are undetectable.

It`s hard to get pictures of it but I`ve tried as best as I can. The car is a little dirty from sitting outside and some light snow over the weekend.
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Final polishing should probably be done on a lower speed is the only guess I can give without personally test spotting and seeing how it reacts. Did you make sure to wipe the pad clean after each section?
 
Possibly something on the towels or wash media. Or maybe they were not completely removed the first it was compounded.
 
I`ll second polishing speed. I`ve gotten holograms with something as "weak" as HD Speed before, they were fixed with a few very gentle and light passes at low speed.
 
I`ve used that OPT. polish ll,
and I`m thinkin` some got dried on without getting completely removed, then sealed in. :(
 
jrock645 said:
Final polishing should probably be done on a lower speed is the only guess I can give without personally test spotting and seeing how it reacts. Did you make sure to wipe the pad clean after each section?
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I did not wipe the pads clean. The first time when I polish the whole car I used 3 pads of each type. Although I`ve since ordered a couple more. When I went back and read it the hood I only used one white pad and when I was done it felt fairly caked with polish.

I recently ordered a pad brush from autogeek and we`ll use that from now on. Is there any sort of cleaner I should use with it, while polishing?
 
The Guz said:
Possibly something on the towels or wash media. Or maybe they were not completely removed the first it was compounded.
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I thought of that, but it would`ve affected other panels, no? I was pretty careful to inspect everything to make sure there was nothing stuck to them.
Migue said:
I`ll second polishing speed. I`ve gotten holograms with something as "weak" as HD Speed before, they were fixed with a few very gentle and light passes at low speed.
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Maybe setting it on 3 would be better? I`ve applied my LSP on a speed of 2 or 3 but the polisher bogs down easily at that speed. I have to use what feels like a very light touch
Mary B said:
I`ve used that OPT. polish ll,
and I`m thinkin` some got dried on without getting completely removed, then sealed in. :(
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That`s what I thought, then it happened again. When I polished the second time it was cloudy outside. I thought I removed it all. But maybe not.
 
Make sure you clean your pads "on the fly" (brush the spent polish and removed clear coat after each 2 by 2 section). Especially if you are only using 3 pads per car. I prefer to use one pad per panel(hood, roof, etc.) around 8-9 pads of each type (polishing, compounding). You can use one pad to apply your LSP for the whole car.
 
Bill1975 said:
I did not wipe the pads clean. The first time when I polish the whole car I used 3 pads of each type. Although I`ve since ordered a couple more. When I went back and read it the hood I only used one white pad and when I was done it felt fairly caked with polish.

I recently ordered a pad brush from autogeek and we`ll use that from now on. Is there any sort of cleaner I should use with it, while polishing?
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Just a good brush, and then a wipe off with a MF towel should do the trick. No need to spray with any cleaner until you`re done with it.
 
Holograms can be incredibly difficult to remove even if they are "only light and shallow". And yes indeed seeing them can be a challenge (I need a SunGun to see `em in the shop).

I wouldn`t completely rule out that the whole vehicle has the problem but it`s just that hard to see `em. On metallic black I`ve had to have my wife help me spot them, we spend *forever* with one person moving the vehicle around during *just the right time of day* while the other looked for issues. And I don`t mean "just a couple of hours" either, took a few days as the sun had to be just right.

Q-Are these real holograms (as in, light marring, usually rotary-induced) or pseudo-holograms from polishing oils or LSP/other products-issues? I`d figure that out first. I`ve had pseudo-holograms from all sorts of things and sometimes they`re really tough to eliminate even though they`re "not really marring in the paint".
 
Your wife is very patient! My girlfriend rolls her eyes before I can even finish saying "swirl marks"!

I have checked every panel the car in various lighting conditions just about every day since I first polish it a couple weeks ago. I can see one very small and light hologram on the rear bumper but that is it. I will say that originally I first saw holograms on the hood near the driver side and then across the rest of the hood. But today I looked at it and only saw them on the passenger side. It is difficult to say whether it is dried product or any kind of marring. For the life of me, I can`t see it anywhere else.

Given how difficult it is to detect, it`s not the end of the world, but it bothers me just knowing its there.

I suspect I will have to polish it again at some point when then sun is stronger, that`s really the only way to tell. I have no way of knowing if it`s actual marring or dried polish.

As an aside, this car is a metallic dark grey. My last car was a non metallic black. I think the metallic flakes,which are so prevalent in many finishes now days masks some minor issues, even on black, or dark cars. It seems the non metallic finishes are the least forgiving.
 
Bill1975- Yes indeed, Accumulatorette is very patient :D We didn`t keep track, but it took *so many* hours to sort it out. Lucky for me she hates holograms almost as much as I do since she agrees that they send a message we don`t want our vehicles to broadcast. And we both have that "if it matters to one of us, then it *matters* period" mentality.

Yes indeed#2 that color is an INCREDIBLE PIA to deal with this on, exact same thing we went through with the GMC we had which was a darker version of the same thing (and those holograms were instilled by a *highly* regarded Autopian Pro too, no hard feelings as he`s a pal whom I do respect, we`re just insanely picky). Straight black is unforgiving, but at least it`s easy to see what`s really going on.

Eh, I don`t know from the products you used so I guess I can`t really be of much help :o

I`m glad this isn`t bugging you too much. I honestly don`t want you to go through what we did over stuff that`s just not that big a deal.

Wonder if you`d learn anything by cleaning a section (that has the issue) with a solvent.
 
Bill1975 said:
I have assumed that polishing a car will remove the LSP as well as any other product residue.
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Yeah, it oughta, but..
-my usual concerns about unnecessary polishing :o
-what if the polish is the issue?

I just lean towards the idea that perfectly/genuinely clean bare paint oughta be easier to evaluate and solvents shouldn`t do anything except give you that.

Unless they were there before you started, I can only think of a few things that could`ve caused them since you were working with a PC.

-not-so-micro marring from wiping off the most aggressive product
-residual polishing oils
-something like the oils not playing nice with the LSP
-the LSP somehow messing up (I`ve mostly had that when layering stuff)
-the MF somehow micro-marring in some places but not others (but IMO that`s *VERY* unlikely in this case)

I had something like that on the `93 Audi last year..washed and used FK425 as a Drying Aid (hey, oughta work fine with FK1000P, right?), seemed fine..then a week or so later I saw that kind of thing in certain lighting. Freaked Out. Rewashed, buffed *buffed* *BUFFED* with IUDJ when drying with a really soft plush MF Drying Towel, problem disappeared and never came back (major relief!).
 
Accumulator said:
Unless they were there before you started, I can only think of a few things that could`ve caused them since you were working with a PC.

-not-so-micro marring from wiping off the most aggressive product
-residual polishing oils
-something like the oils not playing nice with the LSP
-the LSP somehow messing up (I`ve mostly had that when layering stuff)
-the MF somehow micro-marring in some places but not others (but IMO that`s *VERY* unlikely in this case)
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I have been concerned that my drying routine could introduce problems.. I usually pull a WW to draw off most of the water, then pat dry with a second WW. This time, I pat dried with both towels. I just ordered a Griots PFM towel. Maybe that will be better

Sometimes the polish and LSP took a but of effort to remove. I don`t know if MF wears out, as some towels are about 5-6 years old, but they`re always cleaned and inspected before use.

I used all Optimum products, so they should "play nice"

I am starting to wonder if not keeping the pad clean was an issue. After polishing the hood with one white pad, it was pretty caked up with polish. I`ve since bought a cleaning brush for the pads.
 
I like the way you`re thinking your way through this and providing good info.

Bill1975 said:
I have been concerned that my drying routine could introduce problems.. I usually pull a WW to draw off most of the water, then pat dry with a second WW. This time, I pat dried with both towels. I just ordered a Griots PFM towel. Maybe that will be better
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As long as you get *ALL* the dirt off, I wouldn`t expect the drying to cause issues, BUT...if your water is really nasty then allowing some to evaporate (rather than soaking it up with the Drying Towel) might cause problems. Probably not *these* problems though.

Sometimes the polish and LSP took a but of effort to remove. I don`t know if MF wears out, as some towels are about 5-6 years old, but they`re always cleaned and inspected before use.
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Ah, yeah...that sounds like a Big Clue. My Buffing MFs never seem to wear out, but that might just be me. But I do think *something* is haywire if buffing product residue off is a PIA as IMO it oughta be really *REALLY* easy.

I *NEVER* let compounds/polishes dry before I buff `em off unless I have a special reason to (e.g., polishes that leave stuff behind, like AIOs). Buffing off a dry compound can cause that exact problem and maybe a polish can too if the paint`s soft enough.

And I suspect you used too much product. Most people do until they get dialed-in.

I used all Optimum products, so they should "play nice"
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Yeah, oughta work that way. Oughta ;)

I am starting to wonder if not keeping the pad clean was an issue. After polishing the hood with one white pad, it was pretty caked up with polish. I`ve since bought a cleaning brush for the pads.
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YES!! That could very well be it! I`m an absolute fanatic about keeping pads *reakky* clean (clean them constantly, many times per panel, use a zillion fresh pads).

FWIW, I find the brushes pretty useless (except with a rotary), preferring to clean pads with a towel or compressed air. Or just getting out a clean one.

Yeah...IMO that could be it right there. If you`d a) used less product, b) buffed your abrasives off while still a bit wet, and c) used a stupid-huge number of pads like I do I bet the problem wouldn`t have happened.
 
I`ll have to use less product and change pads or clean them more frequently next time.

Fortunately the holograms aren`t terrible so I can live with it for now. The other good news is I`m eager to try again at some point to see how changes to my routine affect things.
 
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