Let's hear from the "Hacks"

salty said:
they are making more money than me and the customer is still happy.
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That's exactly the problem and one I'm trying to change daily... to customers, just as much as 1+1=2, a 'detail' is supposed to cost $60-100 and last 4-6 weeks...
 
lecchilo said:
That's exactly the problem and one I'm trying to change daily... to customers, just as much as 1+1=2, a 'detail' is supposed to cost $60-100 and last 4-6 weeks...
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There is your market, can you service them and remain profitable?



Give them the $100 job.





If you can do it, do it.





If not, its time to pick up another trade. :sadwavey:
 
jdoria said:
There is your market, can you service them and remain profitable?



Give them the $100 job.





If you can do it, do it.





If not, its time to pick up another trade. :sadwavey:
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I'm luckily doing this part time and have my weekends filled so I can charge what I charge and stay away from the 'average' clients while still trying to teach them what actual detailing is...
 
I saw this on the MOL forum. This was a post from Mike Phillips from a conversation he had with a seller at Barrett-Jackson in 06.





niiice.jpg






Another attendee from Megs this year stated that 90% of this years cars were swirl-city, some were outright disasters.



I'll bet it was more like 97%. I remember when I was a selling cars at auction, the cars were lucky to get a free auction provided nylon bristle-brush wash prior.
 
jdoria said:
Another attendee from Megs this year stated that 90% of this years cars were swirl-city, some were outright disasters.



I'll bet it was more like 97%. I remember when I was a selling cars at auction, the cars were lucky to get a free auction provided nylon bristle-brush wash prior.
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Nearly every car I saw on the blocks had noticable swirls when they went down the side with the camera and the lights reflected in the paint.
 
By Autopian standards, I'm a hack. I use mostly OTC products and I use a Ryobi buffer instead of a PC. I still get damn nice results, if I do say so myself. Also, I've learned and incorporated a TON from this site, so my techniques aren't hack level.



I also don't do 10-hour corrections. My jobs are in the 5-hour range and usually accomplish a 50-80% correction depending on the paint.



The people I deal with simply aren't going to pay $2-300 for a long, arduous detail when most of them don't even know the definition of swirl marks.



Also--in New England, 99.99999% of cars are heavily swirled. I notice it, but those people don't seem to.
 
gamby said:
By Autopian standards, I'm a hack. I use mostly OTC products and I use a Ryobi buffer instead of a PC. I still get damn nice results, if I do say so myself. Also, I've learned and incorporated a TON from this site, so my techniques aren't hack level.



I also don't do 10-hour corrections. My jobs are in the 5-hour range and usually accomplish a 50-80% correction depending on the paint.



The people I deal with simply aren't going to pay $2-300 for a long, arduous detail when most of them don't even know the definition of swirl marks.



Also--in New England, 99.99999% of cars are heavily swirled. I notice it, but those people don't seem to.
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Obviously they're not going to pay $2-300...that's why they're going to you right?
 
Tusin said:
Obviously they're not going to pay $2-300...that's why they're going to you right?
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I dunno if that was a jab. Regardless, some people are paying it, but this isn't SoCal, either. The car culture is much more low-rent 'round here--attend a few local cars hows and you'll see what I mean.



I'd gladly step up and do a detail of that level, but I just can't seem to find the market. (actually, I'm not sure if I'm looking for it per se--10-12 hour details might be too much for me.) I was talking about it w/ my wife Friday night, actually. You need a helluva network to be able to tap into the high-end detail demographic.



There are exotic cars in RI, I just have no idea a) how to market to them b) where they get their cars done (if at all).
 
dublifecrisis said:
I've never been called a hack but I also know that my detailing experience is only less than 2 years so I also don't claim to be a 'pro' or an 'Autopian'. I do this on the side mostly for people I know (co-workers, friends, neighbors, family, referal from any of the above).



I've never charged more than $200 but never less than $75. This range was anything from a 2 step polish, LSP, full interior...you know the works. Then the lower end for a 1 step, or maybe a refresh from repeat customer, engine clean with a refresh etc..



I think I'm charging a fair amount for the work I put in but realize I could charge more IF I were in fact an 'Autopian' or had these years of experience that a lot of you guys have. I don't make unrealistic promises to anyone and I don't claim to be anything that I'm not.



Most of my customers think I know everything about detailing and I humbly explain that knowing products and processes doesn't mean I know anything more someone willing to research about it. The hands on experience and experiments is what really makes you better right? I make sure when they get their automobile back that we look closely at everything. I point out RDS, swirls both before and after.



You know what? I think this DOES make me an Autopian! I'm not a Certified Master Detailer but I don't claim to be.
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Excellent post. I think that in almost any industry, understanding expectations and ensuring proper communication are the most important. Like they OP said, if an initial customer want's to pay $100 and have the car back in a couple hours, better make sure they don't think they are getting a complete refinish in the process.
 
gamby said:
By Autopian standards, I'm a hack. I use mostly OTC products and I use a Ryobi buffer instead of a PC. I still get damn nice results, if I do say so myself. Also, I've learned and incorporated a TON from this site, so my techniques aren't hack level.



I also don't do 10-hour corrections. My jobs are in the 5-hour range and usually accomplish a 50-80% correction depending on the paint.



The people I deal with simply aren't going to pay $2-300 for a long, arduous detail when most of them don't even know the definition of swirl marks.



Also--in New England, 99.99999% of cars are heavily swirled. I notice it, but those people don't seem to.
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I don't know about you, but I don't want to work my *** off for $20 an hour... I do $2-$300 details and I don't spend more than 6 hours doing em! If I wanted to make less than $40/h I'd be doing something else!



A 10-12 hour detail would only be either A) A favor for a friend, for $300 detail, or B) A $400+ detail...
 
mmm. Must be nice where just every joe schmoe can walk into any job out there and demand more than $40/hr. I have a college degree and used to be a design engieer for GM for years and I never made anywhere near $40/hr. Even as a lead designer. Where the heck do you people live where money flows so freely that you guys look down and snub $20-$30/hr??? Unless maybe you're a lawyer or Dr. I don't know of any other profession where one can just "Go do something else if I'm not making at least $20/hr" seriously let me and 99% of america in on this secret location where money just flows as easily as water.
 
We really shouldn't get into who makes what now... you make what you can make... end of story. If a hack shop in Chicago can charge $250 for a detail where they run the rotary over a Porsche's finish with sand and rocks in a bottle, I can charge $350-400 to correct that finish in 6-8 hours.... again, pricing depends on the area and how you market yourself, I think many have already proven that...



As for hacks, gamby, if you're getting 50-80% correction WITHOUT ruining the paint even more (for example, if you go over the finish with a rotary and M105 as a 1-step very quickly you're not leaving a great finish) then you're not a hack... just because you make less money than some, or do a detail in 4-5 hours, doesn't mean you're not following proper techniques... I've done many details myself in under 5 hours that consisted of a 1-step polish, then sealant, but I used a finishing polish so the finish won't have buffer marks, etc. and the client got an explanation of exactly what's happening...



The only reason I can assume you're a 'hack' by autopian standards is because, from what you said about your clients, it seems you don't explain anything you do to your clients, simply take the car and say hi and bye accordingly...



Bottom line is, as many have mentioned, as long as the client knows what you're doing (hopefully you're not explaining to the client how you're going to use sandpaper then NXT 2.0 over it, and having them agree) and what they're paying for, you're not a hack...
 
gamby said:
I dunno if that was a jab. Regardless, some people are paying it, but this isn't SoCal, either. The car culture is much more low-rent 'round here--attend a few local cars hows and you'll see what I mean.



I'd gladly step up and do a detail of that level, but I just can't seem to find the market. (actually, I'm not sure if I'm looking for it per se--10-12 hour details might be too much for me.) I was talking about it w/ my wife Friday night, actually. You need a helluva network to be able to tap into the high-end detail demographic.



There are exotic cars in RI, I just have no idea a) how to market to them b) where they get their cars done (if at all).
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I'm with you man... and while I don't do it for a living, but I do like to use the knowledge I gain here for my own cars. Every now and then I get really busy with something at work and I just can't do my own cars, so I have them done. I know, from here, what a good detail is and what it looks like when a guy gets a buffer that runs off a lighter plug and tries to tell me he "polished" my car when he really just put a bunch of colored wax on it. LOL



My point is, you have to charge what you are confortable with, and according to the work and budget you have. I just want to point out that at $20 / hour, and 4 hours, that's $80. But you used up how much product, gas, ect... That could cut your $20 / hour down to 15-17 real quick. Then you have taxes, insurance, etc... if you are a full time guy. Me, personally, I wouldn't do anyones car, not even a friend, for less than $100 if it included any correction work. I have done a couple of GOOD friends cars, complete restoration at my amature level, for $150.



But like I said, charge what you are confortable with. :-) I just don't want you to get ripped off! :-)
 
The news made it sound like the line workers were makin more than that. Wasn't it somethin like $60 an hour with benefits and all?



Ofcourse, its not like the media is always telling the truth.
 
Wait...guys, when you're an employee it's a lot to make $40/hr., but if you're a mobile detailer, that $40 has to cover your travel time and expenses, and all your other overhead, so it's not the same as a salary of $40/hr.



Just like if you take your car to the dealer to get fixed and they charge $80/hour...that's not what the mechanic makes...
 
lecchilo said:
As for hacks, gamby, if you're getting 50-80% correction WITHOUT ruining the paint even more (for example, if you go over the finish with a rotary and M105 as a 1-step very quickly you're not leaving a great finish) then you're not a hack... just because you make less money than some, or do a detail in 4-5 hours, doesn't mean you're not following proper techniques... I've done many details myself in under 5 hours that consisted of a 1-step polish, then sealant, but I used a finishing polish so the finish won't have buffer marks, etc. and the client got an explanation of exactly what's happening...
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My translation of the "hack" think by autopian standards is that I use a low-end buffer, most of my products are from auto parts stores (I just got some Menz SIP, though), and the aforementioned 5-hour average job. I produce really nice results that are legit--but they don't compare to the high-end details seen done by some of the site superstars on some of the exotics here.



I'd never half-*** something or put a paintjob in jeopardy. For me the pleasure is in getting honest results--not faking it or masking it.



I mean, this car came out beautifully and it barely merited a blink from the peanut gallery--was it the products, the methods? I don't know.



http://www.autopia.org/forum/click-brag/117843-otc-04-996-carrera-cabriolet.html



That's what I produce. :nixweiss



I explain what I do, but most people (customers) are just happy to leave me with their car, check in periodically (maybe) and see the finished product.



As for charging a fortune for a 5-hour job--good for you if you can do it. I agree w/ earlier sentiment--$25/hr for manual labor is pretty good. I'll charge more when I'm at the level of the site superstars--but then I'd price myself out of the market.



Also--check out the average job time in the click and brag section--they take a LOT of time. Obviously not much mention of price (out of tact/class) but I'm sure those jobs aren't cheap.
 
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