Let's hear from the "Hacks"

Great thread!



I'm glad ScottWax and David chimed in as well, you guys are a deep pit of knowledge and always provide useful feedback!



My take is, as Bufferbarry summed up nicely, a "Hack" is someone that will promise the world, and try his best to get it done as fast and with as many corners cut as possible.



Using filler heavy polishes when he promises removal of swirls, someone that will undercut the price of a real shop, claiming to do as good or better work, but completely falling on his face when it comes to follow-through.



The car that looks like crap a month later...



Then again, I see so many hacks in the autobody industry that its getting hard for us detailers as well! I can't count how many times I have detailed a car, only to be cursing it because you can still see sanding scratches in the paint, horrible orange-peel that was not sanded out leaving a less-than-pristine shine.



There have been some beautiful cars that are ruined by orange-peel. Even Porsche and Mercedes!



Wow getting a bit off topic here...



Customer should ALWAYS get what they pay for. A good customer should get MORE than he pays for.



If the customer gets less than he paid for, he was "scammed" by a "hack".



IMHO of course!
 
StumpyDetailing said:
Great thread!



I'm glad ScottWax and David chimed in as well, you guys are a deep pit of knowledge and always provide useful feedback!



My take is, as Bufferbarry summed up nicely, a "Hack" is someone that will promise the world, and try his best to get it done as fast and with as many corners cut as possible.



Using filler heavy polishes when he promises removal of swirls, someone that will undercut the price of a real shop, claiming to do as good or better work, but completely falling on his face when it comes to follow-through.



The car that looks like crap a month later...



Then again, I see so many hacks in the autobody industry that its getting hard for us detailers as well! I can't count how many times I have detailed a car, only to be cursing it because you can still see sanding scratches in the paint, horrible orange-peel that was not sanded out leaving a less-than-pristine shine.



There have been some beautiful cars that are ruined by orange-peel. Even Porsche and Mercedes!



Wow getting a bit off topic here...



Customer should ALWAYS get what they pay for. A good customer should get MORE than he pays for.



If the customer gets less than he paid for, he was "scammed" by a "hack".



IMHO of course!
Click to expand...



I agree to an extent... I think the customer should get what they're promised, not what they pay for (considering we're using the phrase 'you get what you paid for') since there are MANY detailers out there doing great work at $15-20/hr as opposed to my and many other $50+... hack to me is someone, like you said, how speeds through the 'detail' KNOWINGLY after promising the client something generic like 'great shine' or 'like new gloss'...
 
StumpyDetailing said:
My take is, as Bufferbarry summed up nicely, a "Hack" is someone that will promise the world, and try his best to get it done as fast and with as many corners cut as possible.



Using filler heavy polishes when he promises removal of swirls, someone that will undercut the price of a real shop, claiming to do as good or better work, but completely falling on his face when it comes to follow-through.



The car that looks like crap a month later...
Click to expand...



I disagree. I think some other people have nailed it better when they said that a "hack" is someone who does a bad job, but doesn't really know it.



I think you're confusing dishonesty with hacking.



If I go to a quality detailer and say I want my swirls fixed, but I have a budget of $85 and need the car back in two hours, I'm forcing the detailer to use filler heavy polishes and maybe cut some corners in order to do the job profitably. There is nothing "hackish" about that.



It's a different story if I leave my car for 3 days, pay $1000, and all I get back is a filler-heavy detail.



When teh customer in the first scenario doesn't understand the difference, that's when the "hack-cusations" start flying. And very rarely do I see people stick up for the alleged "hack".
 
Less said:
I disagree. I think some other people have nailed it better when they said that a "hack" is someone who does a bad job, but doesn't really know it.



I think you're confusing dishonesty with hacking.



If I go to a quality detailer and say I want my swirls fixed, but I have a budget of $85 and need the car back in two hours, I'm forcing the detailer to use filler heavy polishes and maybe cut some corners in order to do the job profitably. There is nothing "hackish" about that.



It's a different story if I leave my car for 3 days, pay $1000, and all I get back is a filler-heavy detail.



When teh customer in the first scenario doesn't understand the difference, that's when the "hack-cusations" start flying. And very rarely do I see people stick up for the alleged "hack".
Click to expand...



Yea but that detailers should explain CLEARLY to the client that he won't be able to do much for $85 and in 2 hours... if he says he will and then does what he can, he's a hack in my book... as for people who unknowingly do a bad job, I refer to them as hacks as well because they hack up the car, but intentionally hacking it up is worse than unintentionally imo
 
Less said:
If I go to a quality detailer and say I want my swirls fixed, but I have a budget of $85 and need the car back in two hours, I'm forcing the detailer to use filler heavy polishes and maybe cut some corners in order to do the job profitably. There is nothing "hackish" about that.



It's a different story if I leave my car for 3 days, pay $1000, and all I get back is a filler-heavy detail.
Click to expand...



I agree completely that there are different needs for different clients, one that wants his car on auction the next day doesn't care if they're fixed for good or not, just needs it looking good!



But, this still comes down to "you get what you pay for", AS LONG as the Detailer explains fully what is to be done for that amount of $$$.
 
Seems like there are 3 definitions of 'hack' being used here (and they're all right, just confusing)



1. someone who intentionally speeds through a job finishing it in 2 hours when they have either quoted the client for 5 or promised the work of 5 hours

2. someone who doesn't know better and unknowingly either applies glazes to cover swirls, calling it correction, or uses M105/wool pad for 2 hours screwing up the paint to a worse condition that he started with, THEN glazing it and making it all look nice

3. simply a person who 'hacks' up a car's finish



Until this thread I've personally used the 3rd definition as it was the simplest...
 
I think calling a "lessor skilled" detailer a hack is a little degrading personally. Can't think of a better name off hand. But those that don't know any better but are willing to learn should have a different title other than "Hack" I think as degrading as the term is it should be reserved for those that intentionally do sub par work for whatever reason.
 
Noob or Inexperienced maybe???



Eventhough I have been doing "detailing" for about 6 years now, it has been for a dealership. Does that make me a hack? To some, perhaps.



Are there some cars, due to time constraints or other unforeseen events, I do not get to do a "proper" detail on; yes. However, if I know I am not going to get the time to do a "proper" detail, then I don't even start the full process. In many cases, I prefer to focus on the interiors. I see this as the place where you will spend alot of time, and cleanliness is important. Some will disagree, but what is the point of having a flawless exterior, if the interior is so dirty you can hardly stand to be in the car??? On the occasion I do have enough time to do a "proper" detail, I do everything I can; from compounding, to polishing, to waxing etc.



To me, a hack is someone who promises one thing and doesn't deliever on that promise. This includes failing to meet time deadlines, "hacking" paint jobs, and overall lacking professionalism.
 
byers ford said:
Noob or Inexperienced maybe???



However, if I know I am not going to get the time to do a "proper" detail, then I don't even start the full process. In many cases, I prefer to focus on the interiors. I see this as the place where you will spend alot of time, and cleanliness is important. Some will disagree, but what is the point of having a flawless exterior, if the interior is so dirty you can hardly stand to be in the car??? On the occasion I do have enough time to do a "proper" detail, I do everything I can; from compounding, to polishing, to waxing etc.
Click to expand...



An old adage "The exterior gets them in the door and the interior sells them"



A hack to me is a person that delivers less than the "normal" customer expects for the price. That includes many factors that have been discussed.
 
byers ford said:
To me, a hack is someone who promises one thing and doesn't deliever on that promise. This includes failing to meet time deadlines, "hacking" paint jobs, and overall lacking professionalism.
Click to expand...



I agree... a 'noob' can however fall into this category simply because they promise something unknowingly and deliver something much worse... this is why, to me, everyone who hacks up the paint (other than accidentally screwing up, which non-hacks will usually fix or pay for anyway) is a hack... it's either the inexperienced person trying to do more than they know or, which is even worse imo, someone who knows what they're doing but speed through it to make some extra $$
 
David Fermani said:
Would anyone classify a high volume detail shop a "hack shop" if they do reconditioning for dealerships?
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IMO, that depends on the quality of work they are doing. Where TotolandMach works is in no way a "hack shop". Merriam Webster defines "hack" as one "working for hire especially with mediocre professional standards". My addition to the definition would be that the "hack" also doesn't realize that he's a hack, either he is unable to discern his results suck, he goes thru the same motions as the "professional" and therefore presumes he gets the results, or just thinks his results are the best you can get ("all cars have swirls").



Someone who does a "hack job" on purpose should be called something else (fraud, crook, I dunno). At least that's the way I look at it.
 
David Fermani said:
Would anyone classify a high volume detail shop a "hack shop" if they do reconditioning for dealerships?
Click to expand...



What do you mean by reconditioning? I know 2 shops in my area that, somehow, know what they're doing and their polishing consists of a mild polish (manager told me they use D151 a lot of the time) instead of M105 type products to 'cut those swirls better & faster'... just because it's high volume doesn't mean their washing & drying techniques, as well as correction, need to be low quality... yes it would increase some costs but why can't shops buy some decent quality m/f towels, wash media, etc. and take 20-30 mins instead of 5-10 for 2 guys to wash & dry a car...



So yes, to a certain extent I would consider them a 'hack shop' (considering we're talking only washing/drying/waxing) but only to an extent because, unlike the real 'hacks', who try to correct paint the wrong way, the volume shop promises to clean off the dirt from the vehicle... yes they throw in free swirl marks but they're not ruining paint... I don't know if this is coming out right... I'm trying to say that the volume detail shop has a standard of quality to go by, which is very low, and they simply get done what's expected, which is this low standard... a hack who's correcting paint is, as said before, either hacking it without enough knowledge, which he can be blamed for obviously, or rushing through a detail and not doing a good job trying to make some extra cash
 
Setec Astronomy said:
IMO, that depends on the quality of work they are doing. Where TotolandMach works is in no way a "hack shop". Merriam Webster defines "hack" as one "working for hire especially with mediocre professional standards". My addition to the definition would be that the "hack" also doesn't realize that he's a hack, either he is unable to discern his results suck, he goes thru the same motions as the "professional" and therefore presumes he gets the results, or just thinks his results are the best you can get ("all cars have swirls").



Someone who does a "hack job" on purpose should be called something else (fraud, crook, I dunno). At least that's the way I look at it.
Click to expand...



Well said! Especially the crook part... I guess we've clarified the definitions a bit... a hack is anyone who messes up the paint, but someone who does it intentionally is also a crook.
 
David Fermani said:
Would anyone classify a high volume detail shop a "hack shop" if they do reconditioning for dealerships?
Click to expand...



I would consider them a hack shop if they are using "Shady" practices like undercutting the next shop in order to steal customers, or bleaching everything to call it clean, etc etc etc. However volume shops provide an expected service and get low wages because of that comparitively. As long as they live up to those expectations from the dealerships and other customers then no I can't consider them a "Hack" shop.



If the shop tells the dealership "Hey we're going to 1 step polish it, Vacuum it out, Possibly steam clean it, Shine up the plastic and do the window all for $X.XX" If the dealership says yes and then gets exactly that then they are meeting expectations and shouldn't be considered hackish.
 
David Fermani said:
Would anyone classify a high volume detail shop a "hack shop" if they do reconditioning for dealerships?
Click to expand...



Depends on the final product and what was paid, period.



I rememebr the hacks I used to send my used cars to. I would only pay them between $75-$100 per car. If the shop barked, I would pull the business. Within a month they would call and ask for some cars back. I only squeezed them for the money becuase who the hell cares! I'd also send cars back for round two frequently if the work was sloppy. The customers had no idea what clean was or wasnt! Moving 600 used cars per year for 10 years, I can verify that no paying customer ever gave a shiiite! The only complaint would be if it rained on the delivery day, in which case I would give them a coupon to go get a $6.00 car wash down the street or a free oil change at their first service.



I've said it before, the detailing business has always been extremely THIN in NY. I couldnt even tell you where there is a shop other than Detailing Dynamics in Mineola, which is about 40 minutes from me. I just dont think the masses of people value the service other than the new "We wipe your car by hand with a filthy ripped towel after the tunnel wash" joints that have popped up. They are $18 plus a $5 tip for a tunnel scratch and a wipe with an old terrycloth bath towel that has been on the ground 19 times, and used on 6 other cars wheels before it wped the hood of your $100k S550 Mr. Jones...



Dealerships are just Malco and Car Brite happy. Easy to get, cheap, lots of oily glaze and fillers to make the car look greasy for delivery! Hacks, Im sure, but thats what thier business calls for. If it pays the bills, who cares?



On this site, we can all write and circle jerk till' 2am about which $19 dollar towels to use on our Menzerna 5 step polished hoods, or what brand of IPA mixes best with Poland Spring distilled water, or what Peruvian imported polishing media has silicone fillers that are impervious to sunlight, donkey kicks, and infrared heat to 175 degrees farenheit. But take that mentality out into the world of a clean-up shop with a $20,000 per month overhead, and you will hear a different definition over what is a "hack" and what matters.
 
A good portion of my work is cleaning cars bought at auction for the place that i used to work for.



The cars bought have already been cleaned. But as Scott said it is a cover-up. They do it in an hour or so and sometimes they aren't bad (probably was fairly clean to start with). They are meant to sell at the auction, at a quick glance from 20 feet away (or on the net).



For the most part i wouldn't call them hacks, but they do some things that are not professional. But why should they care. The cars are being bought by dealerships that have a detailing department, so they just past it down the line.



For the most part they charge $85 an hour. For that you get a PW wash, engine, uncleaned tires and rims with solvent dressing, interior, usually solvent dressing dash and large area wipe and a quick extraction and maybe a heavy hiding wax.



My average price to go over and correct the car is $150, for hours of work. So even though some might call them hacks, they are making more money than me and the customer is still happy.
 
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