imported_Dave11
New member
David Fermani said:
So would I.......but, I'm not holding my breath on that.
I think she's already made up her mind....
Leatherique -- Leather re-conditioning - W/ Pictures.
- Thread starter Neofate
- Start date
So would I.......but, I'm not holding my breath on that.
I think she's already made up her mind....
judyb
New member
Will be testing Leatherique very shortly and will share the results when we do.
We have also been checking some facts out with the American Leather Chemists Association which proves intereting reading.
We never make up our minds totally without testing but simply apply the 'science' of cleaning leather to the products. We do not have time to test all products on the market as there are so many so you have to review the products contents and the claims that are made inorder to try to understand what the products are being sold to do.
We have also been checking some facts out with the American Leather Chemists Association which proves intereting reading.
We never make up our minds totally without testing but simply apply the 'science' of cleaning leather to the products. We do not have time to test all products on the market as there are so many so you have to review the products contents and the claims that are made inorder to try to understand what the products are being sold to do.
KnuckleBuckett
New member
judyb said:
I will be very interested in your findings.
imported_Dave11
New member
judyb said:
Very good.......:bigups
I stand corrected Judy.......
Looking forward to your findings....
tom p.
Active member
:ignore
Folks, if there was a major flaw in the Leatherique strategy, be it short-term or long-term, don't you think we might have heard about after all these years?
I've got Leather Master products, and my perception is that I get a higher impact with Leatherique when used as prescribed. I know Scott uses Leather Master. I don't know if he's used Leatherique, but he is another we could ask about his impressions and whether he's witnessed degradation when using Leatherique.
Thx.
judyb
New member
The point is Tom that leather finishes keep changing and products and methods have to keep abreast of these.
As I always point out it is not the product that causes the damage to leather but the dirt that is allowed to acumulate on the surface which is often exacerbated by residues that are left on the surface after using produts.
We see many many examples of the way that dirt has destroyed the finish on leather and it is very often caused by incorrect cleaning and product use.
Leather 'conditioning' in the tanners terms is the moisture level of the leather and has nothing to do with adding more oils etc. and the top coat of leather stops products from getting through to the leather itself on most auto leather. Dirt cannot be extracted from leather no matter how hard you try as there is simply not enough air flow to allow this to happen.
LM products work on a clean and protect system which is the best one to folow as these products do work and help keep the leather in good 'condition' as they are water based products.
As I always point out it is not the product that causes the damage to leather but the dirt that is allowed to acumulate on the surface which is often exacerbated by residues that are left on the surface after using produts.
We see many many examples of the way that dirt has destroyed the finish on leather and it is very often caused by incorrect cleaning and product use.
Leather 'conditioning' in the tanners terms is the moisture level of the leather and has nothing to do with adding more oils etc. and the top coat of leather stops products from getting through to the leather itself on most auto leather. Dirt cannot be extracted from leather no matter how hard you try as there is simply not enough air flow to allow this to happen.
LM products work on a clean and protect system which is the best one to folow as these products do work and help keep the leather in good 'condition' as they are water based products.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Some of you sure are really playing more that the Devil's Advocate role against judyb? What's the beef with her? I think I've read pretty much all of her posts and I've found them to be very informative & professional. She obviously has an expert background in this field and has explained herself pretty well. I'm NOT a leather chemist, but has she ever stated anything to be found incorrect? I really think she can shed helpful light to the people (including me) that can improve their processes/products selection in respect to cleaning, protecting and maintaining leather.
judyb - Make sure when you do your testing that you document your findings with as many pictures & data possible that will clearly portray the facts. Their will be many disbelievers.
judyb - Make sure when you do your testing that you document your findings with as many pictures & data possible that will clearly portray the facts. Their will be many disbelievers.
Saintlysins
New member
I second “DAVID FERMANI� – Going back and objectively looking at what Judy is saying, (this thread and others), she clearly knows her stuff. At no point does she claim the Leatherique system is ‘bad’, but that some statements (by people or on label) may not be completely true, (like we haven’t seen that scenario in our profession/hobby products before). Her presentations aren’t always the ‘warmest-reads’, but it doesn’t mean she’s wrong. I like that she’s going to give the product a try. :xyxthumbs
I look forward to seeing her follow up. It will be interesting to say the least. As with many products in our profession/hobby, Leatherique and other methods may just be different roads to get similar results.
I also look forward to “NEOFATE’s� better pictures, and the continued detailed updates (good job!). :goodjob
We’re all getting a good lesson here – and perfect timing, just before I’m ready to order more leather care products!
:thx
I look forward to seeing her follow up. It will be interesting to say the least. As with many products in our profession/hobby, Leatherique and other methods may just be different roads to get similar results.
I also look forward to “NEOFATE’s� better pictures, and the continued detailed updates (good job!). :goodjob
We’re all getting a good lesson here – and perfect timing, just before I’m ready to order more leather care products!
:thx
tom p.
Active member
Ladies and gentlemen, as far as I'm concerned, this forum is a platform for learning and fine-tuning existing practices and procedues. I pay close to attention to what's what.
I'm alll ears...and waiting for Judy's most thorough evaluation
Cheers!
I'm alll ears...and waiting for Judy's most thorough evaluation
Cheers!
jayjacque
You WILL like my work!
David F. and Saintly, I usually try and keep an open mind, but it's just tooooooooo much to swallow. Recent quotes like these:
Dave
I know that leather does not need oils to 'condition' it and have had to put right the damage that they have done so therefore an oil product serves no purpose and may cause damage.
We strongly believe we are on the right track - simple , effective and proven. The science of Leatherique to us simply does not stack up.
Why are you trying to 'condition' leather with anything other than moisture. When tanners speak of 'conditioning' they mean the moisture balance, not the repalcement of oils etc.
On car leather products like most of the conditioners on the market, cannot get through the top coat finish on the leather and so can do the leather itself no good whatsoever. People are spending money on products that at best do nothing and at worst could cause problems
Pretty much the only product besides her that works (but not as good as her's) is Leather Masters Protection Cream, not Leather Vital mind you (as near as I can tell from her quotes).
From a marketing standpoint it's brilliant. Lots of pm's coming her way I bet, in order to locate the one product that really works. Quote from another thread:
There is a very fine line and I do not always come out with outright product recommendations as then I am accused of selling and advertising. If any of you want individual recommendations for product then I am glad to help on PM's. If you ask direct questions on here I may be granted the freedom to post but I do not want to overstep the mark. I try to give as much technical support as I can.
Regards
Judy
On the bright side, probably her product is good, and there is some good advice being given, so for any that are going hook, line, and sinker you're not going to get "taken". I just don't care for the all encompassing statements. Maybe it's a little like if a real good brand of sealant started claiming how all other waxes or sealants either do nothing at all or may even cause long term damage. Not everyone would believe that, but for the ones that would, they would for sure buy the product.
Dave
I know that leather does not need oils to 'condition' it and have had to put right the damage that they have done so therefore an oil product serves no purpose and may cause damage.
We strongly believe we are on the right track - simple , effective and proven. The science of Leatherique to us simply does not stack up.
Why are you trying to 'condition' leather with anything other than moisture. When tanners speak of 'conditioning' they mean the moisture balance, not the repalcement of oils etc.
On car leather products like most of the conditioners on the market, cannot get through the top coat finish on the leather and so can do the leather itself no good whatsoever. People are spending money on products that at best do nothing and at worst could cause problems
Pretty much the only product besides her that works (but not as good as her's) is Leather Masters Protection Cream, not Leather Vital mind you (as near as I can tell from her quotes).
From a marketing standpoint it's brilliant. Lots of pm's coming her way I bet, in order to locate the one product that really works. Quote from another thread:
There is a very fine line and I do not always come out with outright product recommendations as then I am accused of selling and advertising. If any of you want individual recommendations for product then I am glad to help on PM's. If you ask direct questions on here I may be granted the freedom to post but I do not want to overstep the mark. I try to give as much technical support as I can.
Regards
Judy
On the bright side, probably her product is good, and there is some good advice being given, so for any that are going hook, line, and sinker you're not going to get "taken". I just don't care for the all encompassing statements. Maybe it's a little like if a real good brand of sealant started claiming how all other waxes or sealants either do nothing at all or may even cause long term damage. Not everyone would believe that, but for the ones that would, they would for sure buy the product.
judyb
New member
LM Vital was actually formulated to stop leather squeaking on things like motion furniture when leather rubs on leather, it is a great product for this.
It was also found to give a brief 'feel' factor to the surface of leather. It does not soak in but evaporates after a while leaving nothing on the surface that could attract dirt.
It is used extensively by cleaners in the USA for its hand. It serves no other purpose. Customers generally like the feel which then wears off very quickly but by that time the customer has got used to the leather again and notices no difference.
The reason that LM is good is because they are water based products and work on the cleaning and protection system. Anyone can test the level of protection that these give through a simple test (will post this up next week) we merely keep the strength of ours above LM and have found no other protector to be as effective. If we did we would be using it in our range. Our products are drawn from all over the world and not simply produced by one factory. They are constantly tested by all sides of the industry.
Hope this helps to clarify
Not trying to hook people simply giving good technical advice.
It was also found to give a brief 'feel' factor to the surface of leather. It does not soak in but evaporates after a while leaving nothing on the surface that could attract dirt.
It is used extensively by cleaners in the USA for its hand. It serves no other purpose. Customers generally like the feel which then wears off very quickly but by that time the customer has got used to the leather again and notices no difference.
The reason that LM is good is because they are water based products and work on the cleaning and protection system. Anyone can test the level of protection that these give through a simple test (will post this up next week) we merely keep the strength of ours above LM and have found no other protector to be as effective. If we did we would be using it in our range. Our products are drawn from all over the world and not simply produced by one factory. They are constantly tested by all sides of the industry.
Hope this helps to clarify
Not trying to hook people simply giving good technical advice.
Saintlysins
New member
I agree with you "JAYJACQUE" - it does seem a bit preachy and a bit one sided, but not quite a sales pitch. There's another thread running right now where I asked her to do less critiquing and more procedure, technique and list multiple products she believes in.
I think we all agree she knows 'something' about leather, but it's the way she's telling us a product is 'not acceptable' yet not offering alternatives is not easily accepted on this site.
What I've always liked about this site is the sharing of technique, products, equipment and details (like Neofate did with this thread) without anyone telling each other their opinion, technique, product was incorrect – but rather tell them how they did it differently - without judgment to the previous post.
I hope she comes back to us with more of what this site seems to promote - sharing without judgments. Maybe she’ll experience a unique product and embrace it, and maybe we’ll find out she found some shortcomings. Either way, let’s hope she comes back with more advice than critique.
Well … that’s my three and a half cents and the way I see it.
I think we all agree she knows 'something' about leather, but it's the way she's telling us a product is 'not acceptable' yet not offering alternatives is not easily accepted on this site.
What I've always liked about this site is the sharing of technique, products, equipment and details (like Neofate did with this thread) without anyone telling each other their opinion, technique, product was incorrect – but rather tell them how they did it differently - without judgment to the previous post.
I hope she comes back to us with more of what this site seems to promote - sharing without judgments. Maybe she’ll experience a unique product and embrace it, and maybe we’ll find out she found some shortcomings. Either way, let’s hope she comes back with more advice than critique.
Well … that’s my three and a half cents and the way I see it.
jayjacque
You WILL like my work!
I think I'm gonna be sick...
JUST KIDDING!
Note to Self: Mellow out and be nice. Try not to get banned. Look in the mirror and say, "I must be nice, I must. I must be nice, I must..."
JUST KIDDING!
Note to Self: Mellow out and be nice. Try not to get banned. Look in the mirror and say, "I must be nice, I must. I must be nice, I must..."
Saintlysins
New member
Great response "JAYJACQUE" !!!!!
I think we might get caught up in the dynamic of your responses and your avatar ... but whatever you do ... don't change it! It has its own character ... I like it.
I think we might get caught up in the dynamic of your responses and your avatar ... but whatever you do ... don't change it! It has its own character ... I like it.
David Fermani said:
I will take more, -- It is just now becoming sunny again,.. The lighting is the problem. And artificial, say halogen light won't be fair or accurate. It has to be compared to outside, with the sun completely out, doors open. -- I will try my best to match them up.
Gah, can't you guys just take my word for it.. !! -- :lol
No seriously, I know your a bit skeptical and curious..
I agree -- a proper test on say a car that would most benefit from this -- and older mercedez, say a late 80's model or so , even vintage,.. would really show it off. Alot of the higher end, Lambo's, Ferrarri's, and such have such leather that really work well with it too. (Of course as opposed to the LOWER end Ferrarri's.. like I have heh)
Umm to your questions:
Cracks, no cracks aren't any worse -- But they aren't any better in my opinion. There might be some areas that the cracks seem less noticeable, but there was no physical alteration of them, so cracks seen before are seen now.. Maybe with better pictures you can see for yourself.
The feel,.. no that is the thing, it doesn't feel artificial at all -- Not whatsoever. It doesn't feel like there is any chemical on it (because there isn't) -- Nor does it feel like its 'filled' with some oil ,etc,.. It just feels like newer/softer leather. This is uniform across the seats, but there are harder areas than others. It all didn't go to one single suppleness -- I think this is because of the way the leather is designed. I can't be for sure. But sections that aren't as soft as others aren't random, it is entire squared off sections of the seat,.. so it isn't a case of the product worked more here, than there and so on.
imported_beachwolverine
New member
Thanks for the nice write-up. It is appreciated.