Layer Zymol?

C

CorruptedSanity

New member
Hi guys!



It took me 2 days but I finally waxed my car.



I washed it, clayed it then applied HD Cleanse then waxed it with Zymol Glasur. I have a red Cayman S.



It took me two days because by 11am I had to stop because anything I put on the car literally dried up in 30 seconds! This being in the shade too! (Talking about 37C temps). Im glad humidity hasnt started yet.



Any how, my question is, can/should wax be layered? If so, how long after initial application? What about Field Glaze? Should I use it after completing layers? The weather is going to get hotter and more humid and I park my car in the sun for 8 hours of the day (it gets up to 50C here in the summer - about 3 weeks of the year).



Thanks!
 
I do back to back applications when I use thier Carbon. I think it's key to apply as thin a coat as possible and remove it immediately. I do 1 panel at a time also. The paint tends to feel just a wee bit softer after the 2nd application. I'm not sure if it's considered layering or just a stronger single coat?
 
glasur works best applied one pannel at a time, so apply it to one plannel, remove, then move on.



as for ;layering, i have foun all the zymols work best when you follow these steps



1. apply wax

2. remove wax

3. allow to harden and cure for 3-4 hours (you will be able to notice the oils sweating out, the paint becomes less clear then when first applied)

4. After 3-4 hours field glaze the car, his will help remove the oils bringing back the shine as wel as it will help level the wax make it look better.

This step works best if you keep the field glaze in the fridge

5. The next day (althought you can do it now) apply a secon coat an follow the same steps.



hd-cleanse before the first coat only (ofcourse)



you will def notice a iffrencet in paint apperance with multiple layers of glasur....



let u sknow how it goes
 
David, I guess its layering because the first coat cures.



calgary, so currently I am at step 3. My initial coat has cured.



So tomorrow ill wash the car then apply the chilled field glaze then immediately apply a second coat? I didnt do a post buff. I just applied the waxed then buffed off, I never got round to buffing it again and now my car is all dusty (not soiled, just dusty). Did I make a big mistake?



Can I wash then field glaze then apply a second coat tomorrow? Or did I do damage by not following up with a buff?
 
CorruptedSanity said:
David, I guess its layering because the first coat cures.



calgary, so currently I am at step 3. My initial coat has cured.



So tomorrow ill wash the car then apply the chilled field glaze then immediately apply a second coat? I didnt do a post buff. I just applied the waxed then buffed off, I never got round to buffing it again and now my car is all dusty (not soiled, just dusty). Did I make a big mistake?



Can I wash then field glaze then apply a second coat tomorrow? Or did I do damage by not following up with a buff?
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Your plan is a good one. After you do the second coat, let it cure for a few hours (as long as you can, but three hours min), then buff it again with a clean, soft MF. Try to get in the habbit of doing this post wax removal buffing after every coat. Vintage will continue to cure for a long time after you actually remove the excess wax. During the curing, the oils that CalagaryDetail talks about will start to surface. When it's really warm, you'll be able to notice it actually hazing or looking cloudy. This secondary buffing will remove that and give you the incredible gloss Vintage is known for.



Edit: I'm not paying attention... Just noticed you're using Glasur and not Vintage. Just replace "Vintage" with "Glasur". :)
 
SuperBee, thanks for your input!



Problem is I park my car in the hot very hot sun from 7 am to 3pm weekdays. So when I come home at 3:15, I can wash my car because the surface is too hot, suds literally instantly dry up ! Not cool at all. I may have to park it in the shade and try washing/waxing at night.
 
A pure wax will layer almost perfectly. One of the great talents of the authentic zymols is that they seem to get better with a little age. My advice would be to wait a minimum of a week, and/or you can go up to a month depending on how clean you manage to keep the car, and layer a coat of wax at a time. Do not over wax on any one occasion (such as putting 3 or more layers on an adventurous weekend day). Too much wax will leave you with unsettled hazing and a less than great finish performance.



Some say that you should only put on one or two layers; My greatest finishes have been achieved by putting on several (currently I go up to 9....several layers past zymol's recommendation, but down from my past usual of 11-12!!!!!! BTW my favorite layers are layer #1, and layer #6 is the spot!!!!) layers of a zymol over a warm season, such as from April to October. How many layers that you would want will purely be left to your individual wants. Just go slowly over a period of at least a week or so and observe the wax's performance over time. Good luck.
 
lbls1

One of the great talents of the authentic zymols is that they seem to get better with a little age.
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I knew it!!!!!!!! Thanks for mentioning it, I had noticed it before but thought I was "seeing it" because I wanted to "see it". Makes me feel good :D thanks



Here is an email I got from the wonderful ave Dudek







David,



Between yesterday and today, I washed the clar, clayed it using lehm klay, then Hd-cleansed it then waxed it with glasur and detail.



My questions are:



1- Can I wash it next week then wax it again? (without claying it and applying hd-cleanse) Does waxing it again prolong its longevity? Increase shine?



2- If I clay it 3 months from now, or next week or next month, will the clay remove wax?



Thanks



Saif













Saif,



Claying the vehicle only needs to be done maybe once a year. The method to determine if the car needs to be clayed is to put your hand in a plastic bag and lightly run your fingertips over the vehicle. If you feel roughness, then it is time to clay. Remember that clay only removes contaminants from the paint, such as fine particles of sand or something of that nature and does not remove wax. You only need to HD Cleanse twice yearly in order to bring the vehicle back to the original factory paint. This process will remove minor swirl marks, oxidation and swirl marks in addition to removing all the wax on the car. After using the HD Cleanse you must wax or glaze within twenty four hours, without driving the car in between the two processes.



You may wash as often as necessary and wax again. You will reach a plateau were the paint just will not accept anymore wax, probably 7 or 8 coats. This will be evident when most of the wax comes off on the buffing towel instead of bonding with the paint.



You should use the Detail wax on the plastic painted parts, bumpers etc, as the Detail contains a tremendous amount of oils that help to maintain the flex agents in the paint on these parts.



As far as how much HD to apply, you should be using an entire 8.5 ounce bottle on the vehicle. with regard to your temperatures I would apply to the small 2-3 square foot areas and immediately buff as you do not want the HD or wax to dry completely.



Hope this helps.



Dave
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That's Dave from Zymol right?? I won't necessarily disagree with Dave and Zymol, since their waxes are extremely potent as you will soon see.



However, from my experiences I will share the following:



1. Claying will only remove the surface contaminants. It will not deep clean the paint IMO; Thus polishing is a must in order to get the most out of the wax. You can have a choice of either hand polishing (if your paint is free from swirling or if you are concerned about clearcoat thinning), or my recommendation would be to machine polish the paint with your choice of a non-abrasive or a mildly abrasive polish, depending on the amount of swirling that you may have.



2. You will definitely see an improvement in the depth perception of your paint with additional layerings of wax. However, the color of your paint, as I've seen it, will be most vibrant with the first two or up to three layerings of an "EG" (glasur, concours, vintage, etc.). If you are good with keeping the paint clean with an occasional use of a quick detailer....a very high quality qd...stay away from the over the counter brands such as megs(no disrespect intended), then you can continue layering the wax for up to a year. As I've said earlier, my greatest finish strength for the signature car has been after 6 spaced out layerings, but then again my car has maintained its finish quality with as many as 10-11 well spaced out layerings. If your car isn't exposed to the elements and is kept relatively dry, then you won't really need a lot of layerings to maintain the finish. It will depend on what will look good to you, and of course how well your paint takes to the wax.
 
Yep thats form David Dudek of Zymol.



Hmm I thought Megs quik detailer the best (or comparable to field glaze- not trying to start a zymol vs megs thread).



How many applications of uses of field glaze would you say you had during the 6 coats?



My car is defitneiyl exposed to the elements, especially with summer raging pretty close. The temps some times get as high as 56C for a few hours of the day and ive manged to be on the highway, hot!!
 
im going to chine in again, both lbls1 and superbee have tons of info on zymol, they wont steart you wrong.



David is a nice enough guy, I have had him help me ion the past and have been impressed however keep in mind he works for the compnay and is selling products. Thats his job.



If you are using an entire bottle of hdcleanse on a car you are using WAY WAY WAY to much, i use less then an ounce on a big car.



as for claying, i clay every couple months, whenever i feel contamination i clay. Its simple enough to do and if you do it often enough you can use a really mild clay and cause little to no marring.



Play around to see how many coats is perfect for you car, I know at one point i went through 22oz of vintage in 3months trying diffrent waxing methods, trying with an applicator, with out hd-cleanse, with a heated applicator, leavng it for a while, removing tight away ect, i know what works for me and the enviorment im in. so play around, have some fun.
 
CorruptedSanity said:
Yep thats form David Dudek of Zymol.



Hmm I thought Megs quik detailer the best (or comparable to field glaze- not trying to start a zymol vs megs thread).



How many applications of uses of field glaze would you say you had during the 6 coats?



My car is defitneiyl exposed to the elements, especially with summer raging pretty close. The temps some times get as high as 56C for a few hours of the day and ive manged to be on the highway, hot!!
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wow that is hot. I would try to detail in a shaded place if possible, and rince the pannels often to keep them cool.. but wow that is crazy hot. Im glad i live in canada :bat



Zymol will prtect from the elements, dont worry about that/



As for how many applications with field glaze, to be honest it depends on each application, sometimes the wax will sweat (leach oils) more then other times. (weather, tempature, humidy, lenght of sweat time will effect how much the wax sweats). 6 would be a good guide line though.



If you have trouble getting field glaze, or just run out try water left in the freeze for a few hours. When it his 0c its perfect. (small amount of ice on the top, but stillw atter undernieth). The cold water really helps with leving the wax and removing the oils.



Megs qd is good, however it was desinged to work with megs products not zymol, as far as i know megs uses solvents which dont sweat they evaporate, field glaze is designed to help remove the oils that zymol uses.



Also field glaze has some carbumba in it to give that extra pop we all love.



If possible I would suggest using field glaze
 
and Mike (Calgary) has done some incredible work as well!!!



I'll be honest with you (as some of us Zymol fans here may know) in that I'm not a field glaze fan at the moment. I have used field glaze earlier with concours, and initially I thought it was good; Later I observed that it left my paint with excessive haze and unsettled gloss. I may try field glaze again to see if my application will yield different results.



I don't want to offend anyone, as you should use any products that you see fit. It has been my experience that in using several different qds, that I have found the megs and mothers types of the otc qd sprays to have been among the lowest in quality. The megs has left my car with a greasy and hazy feel after several uses. A qd should lightly enhance the paint with cleaning lingering dust, some hazing from oxidizing wax, and just leaving a hint of gloss over the paint. So far, I've had my best experiences from Sonus' Carnauba Spritz, and the more commonly found Zymol Detail. For a fresh EG finish, my go to qd will be the Sonus.



I'd also give pinnacle, poorboys, and perhaps the field glaze QDs a shot.
 
wow, Dave from Zymol is full of crap...



The oils in his wax are going to magically maintain the flex agents in the paint..lol...



By the way, the solvents in wax are so strong (they turn a wax that is harder then concrete into a soft pilable substance) into a soft pliable substance that they will remove most of the previous coat, period.



Addiontal coats will ensure even coverage, but it is very unlikely that you build any greater thickness then the original coat because of the solvents.



But my favorite part is how after 7 or 8 coats you can magically tell that the paint is maxed out and the wax will not bond because most of the wax you apply with simply wipe away instead of bond to the paint.



Over 90 percent of the product (on very thin coats) is wiped away anyways...



That post is another reason why if you want real answers call a formulator or somebody that is independent but has experience in the chemical engineering. Product manufacturers and product reps give out some of the worst information their is...
 
Pure waxes will not remove previous coatings. I know this from experience. A good test would be to test different waxes over a contaminated (dried water spots) surface. A true wax (p21s, Zymol, Victoria, Swissvax) will not remove the spotting, even with a little bit of effort. Any other lsp product that removes the spotting or smudges will not have layering (or limited layering) abilities.



If you have some information to share that will prove that pure waxes (meaning products that are defined as carnauba waxes, and not waxes that contain cleaners or synthetic sealant ingredients) will not layer beyond previous coatings, then I would like to see or be directed to the information.



Now......its not to say that you should believe everything that a product rep or the advertising information will tell you. However, if a consumer is asking about product information from this assigned representative, then without having further information from the "independent" source, one would have to arbitrarily trust the statement made by that representative. Not necessarily the best position to be in, but it is a more reliable source than other opinions and heresay.



The only thing that right now we can be sure about is that the notion of layering will be a continued topic of debate.
 
The problem is it is impossible to "prove" one way or another because each "layer" of product is so thin (I have been told about 1/1000th of a micron but I don't know for sure if its true) that it cannot be measured with very expensive lasers.



I pure wax (with out cleaners) still contains the same very strong solvents that transformed little flakes of wax that where harder the concrete into a soft, pilable substance when the wax was in its natural forum. When you have a microscopically thin layer of wax on your paint and reapply the solvents back on top of the microscopically thin layer wax, combined with the aggitation of the new product being applied to going remove any wax not tightly anchored into the pours of the paint. The same product is going to be removed when the excess is removed.



Additonal coats probably do contribute to an increase in apperance as a more even coat is applied over the surface and more of the microscopic areas are coated.
 
just as an fyi, not to cause more debate, but zymol dosent use solvents, they use "natural" (mot sure how natural they really are) oils to emulisfiy the wax. This is the reason for the sweating, the oils o not evaporate the same way as the solvents in other waxes.



I have a feeling the debate over if you can layer wax will go on for years, and the same agruments as always will be brought up...I do however know one thing, multiple layers of the zymol esate glazes do look better then a single layer. So regardless of protection the look of multiple layrs looks better then one
 
Technically it probably isn't impossible to prove; In common practice, however, it would be hard to prove, since a rolling test lab isn't in the reach of most end users.



You would have to physically observe the effects to come to a conclusion. As I've said before, if such products that have solvents which would dissolve layers beneath it (such as cleaner lsp products), then small surface particles such as water, grease and dust spots would be removed. The effects (witnessed) in which non-cleaning agent waxes can glide over the surface residue without removing them could serve as an example of its ability to layer.



Additionally, wax also has to be removed chemically with polishing; It will not necessarily wear off. The sheen and other attributes that produce beading and gloss will wear away, but the thin, gum like residue will remain on the paint and dry.



But there are volumes upon volumes of heresay posts here in the annals of Autopia on the topic of layering. For practical uses, one would want a pure wax or lsp for its ability in "depositing" and enhancing gloss and depth in paint.
 
I don't think water spots and residue removal mean's anything because their is still solvent in the product that keeps the carnauba in emulsion. The carrier used may not be strong enough to have the correct properties to remove a particular contaminent but it definetly works on wax (as the fact that you can apply it proves).



Remember that when wax is in its natural state it is at its absolute hardest. If the solvent used in the emulison is strong enough to soften this super hard natural chunk of wax, it is not going to think twice about softening the current and microscopically thin layer of mostly oil that is on the paint.



Calgary-as far as which solvent (or natural oils) are used to soften and emulisfy the wax, I don't think it matters. The point is that the chemical is strong enough to work on natural hard wax, it is going to laugh at a microscopic layer of barely wax.
 
I didnt know the topic was this debatable or was subject to debate. Ill just layer, the worst ill be doing is just touching up and wasting wax (which is not a bad thing since ill prolly pick up some atlantinque or destiny).
 
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