Lake Country`s new machine.....
- Thread starter felixthecat
- Start date
Accumulator
Well-known member
Incoming.
The OG detailers all seem to say a good detailer should learn how to use a rotary. Brian from Apex says he uses one to finish as he can get a much better finish with this rotary over any DA. I said maybe I`d like to. Maybe from me = I want to but I know I never will lol.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
I learned at a very young age and continued through adulthood with several Journeyman Painters who all used Rotary Power because the only alternative was the Porter Cable 7424..
And no one -ever- swirled,hologrammed, etc., anything.. I never learned how to install those defects into paintwork.. Lucky me !!
It is still the only tool I use for everything and it always will be.. You have to really want to learn how to use it.
Every Maker of all things that are painted uses Rotary Power at the Assembly Line stage and these people all produce perfect, level, clarity, and gloss.. This includes Airplanes and Gel Coat Painted Boats..
Yes, there are a lot of alternatives today that are capable of producing outstanding work; but for me and my business needs, they take longer..
And do they take every size backing plate with a spacer, down to 1" ?Dan F
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Dr Oldz
New member
I still use a rotary a lot. Looking back from when I started.... the now lighter/slower speed machines, pad advancements and buffing liquid technology has certainly made using a rotary much much easier and more enjoyable.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
This ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ !
I absolutely love any Rotary that soft-starts at 600 rpm and is trigger speed adjustable at all speeds.. One of the best things they ever did to direct-drive machines..
And for sure with all the better compound and polishing products made even in the last 15 years, most of these products are surely easier to use and produce even better results than any of the American Industry Standards of decades ago..
All this with the great foam composition advancements (even from 15 years ago) have made my life so much less complicated and easier...
Dan F
Accumulator
Well-known member
Heh heh, I`m gonna go on a bit about the above, hope you don`t mind
-Saying every Detailer oughta know from a rotary is like saying every serious driver oughta know how to drive a non-synchro manual. I call "BS"; the best (Pro) drivers I`ve ever known would be the first to agree with me.
-I can`t stand the finish that M205 leaves on any paints, not good enough for my beaters. So I`m awfully particular and I get the finish I want just fine with a RO/DA. Unless you look at a M205-finished car and immediately think "oh man, I gotta improve upon that!" then any Polisher Differences are a moot point IMO.
-Having "stuff you really oughta do but probably won`t" in the back of your mind is, *IMO*, a recipe for dissatisfaction. It`s important to give ourselves permission to Not Do Things that don`t need to be done as (again just IMO) it contributes to peace-of-mind.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Between my take on Rotaries and those of Dr Olz and STOKDGS we`ve certainly covered the bases 
I see rotarys like this ( and not that I am a MP or Todd Helm )
Once you master a rotary , or at leaast get "real good" with it-- you probably wont want to use the others a whole lot. I remember when computers first came out where I use to work. most of the older folks didnt like them and it was like pulling teeth for them to use them. When people dont know how to use anything, what every it might be (rotary) etc.. they are not going to want to use it , & when they have trouble , make mistakes , they naturally want to fall back into their safe zone ( da polisher ). For the every day enthusiast who will only be working on paint thats in great shape, thats great to not own a rotary. But for people that have or work on paint thats not always so great a rotary is where its at. But they have even made machines like the 3401 & milly to help the folks that just cant bring themselves to learn or just cant learn for one reason or another
Once you master a rotary , or at leaast get "real good" with it-- you probably wont want to use the others a whole lot. I remember when computers first came out where I use to work. most of the older folks didnt like them and it was like pulling teeth for them to use them. When people dont know how to use anything, what every it might be (rotary) etc.. they are not going to want to use it , & when they have trouble , make mistakes , they naturally want to fall back into their safe zone ( da polisher ). For the every day enthusiast who will only be working on paint thats in great shape, thats great to not own a rotary. But for people that have or work on paint thats not always so great a rotary is where its at. But they have even made machines like the 3401 & milly to help the folks that just cant bring themselves to learn or just cant learn for one reason or another
Accumulator
Well-known member
I went the other way- started/learned on and used rotaries for quite a while but was overjoyed when I discovered something else.
I`ll always maintain that a non-Pro will spend more time/etc. on mastering a rotary than he`d ever use doing a lifetime`s worth of correction with a RO/DA. If nothing else, today`s paintjobs can`t withstand very much abrading, so the handful of times a car oughta get (gently) polished over its lifetime isn`t much polishing, and not nearly enough to become a Rotary-Meister.
If somebody *wants* to learn to use a rotary, more power to him! Just like learning to heel & toe in this age of dual-clutch transmissions, it could be very satisfying indeed. But for those whose only interest in this stuff is having a good-looking car with the least amount of time/effort, there`s simply no need.
Guess I have a "need vs. want" way of looking at it...more of my Autopian Heresy I suppose
I`ll always maintain that a non-Pro will spend more time/etc. on mastering a rotary than he`d ever use doing a lifetime`s worth of correction with a RO/DA. If nothing else, today`s paintjobs can`t withstand very much abrading, so the handful of times a car oughta get (gently) polished over its lifetime isn`t much polishing, and not nearly enough to become a Rotary-Meister.
If somebody *wants* to learn to use a rotary, more power to him! Just like learning to heel & toe in this age of dual-clutch transmissions, it could be very satisfying indeed. But for those whose only interest in this stuff is having a good-looking car with the least amount of time/effort, there`s simply no need.
Guess I have a "need vs. want" way of looking at it...more of my Autopian Heresy I suppose
BudgetPlan1
Active member
Yup.
felixthecat
Member
Air & electric Rotary`s are all I`ve used for yrs as well as the air powered d/a`s for sanding, since my last machine was stolen a couple yrs ago, I figured I go w/ a 3401, ended up w/ a G15...I could see this to replace multiple machines, main downside is the bulk, but then again its possibly built like a Grumman aircraft as the flex is built like a Tiger/Panzer tank. So w/ that, its either one machine or a few different machines....your choice...I learned at a very young age and continued through adulthood with several Journeyman Painters who all used Rotary Power because the only alternative was the Porter Cable 7424..
And no one -ever- swirled,hologrammed, etc., anything.. I never learned how to install those defects into paintwork.. Lucky me !!
It is still the only tool I use for everything and it always will be.. You have to really want to learn how to use it.
Every Maker of all things that are painted uses Rotary Power at the Assembly Line stage and these people all produce perfect, level, clarity, and gloss.. This includes Airplanes and Gel Coat Painted Boats..
Yes, there are a lot of alternatives today that are capable of producing outstanding work; but for me and my business needs, they take longer..
Dan F
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
When I was painting I also used air powered D/A`s to feather edge all the paint from the 40-grit paper scratches the bodyguys did after the repair, and then again, after multiple layers of primer with something like 360 grit with a guide coat over the area, to insure it was absolutely flat.. Love those air powered tools ! Final sanding before paint was always done with a guide coat, block, 400-grit wet or dry paper, and a water hose with the metal end cut off. You have to be able to `feel"the entire panel that is being block sanded, and then feel it again with your clean, dry, bare fingers and hand to insure it absolutely flat.
The deal breaker for any machine for me if I was ever to change from Rotary Power, would be if the spindle is not the standard one that will accept a spacer, and then all standard backing plates down to 1 inch size..
Dan F
Accumulator
Well-known member
felixthecat- Hey, you touched on a few references that resonate with me
Heh heh...IMO the Flex3401 is maybe a Panzer MKIV, but it`s no Tiger by a long shot...that`d be my Cyclo. You. Can`t. Kill. A. Cyclo. (And like a Tiger, the Cyclo is limited by not being able to go just anywhere.) Sorry, couldn`t resist!
I`m digging that Gumman reference though Hope that`s the case since I have a BOSS15.
Eh, back in the day I was the only guy in the shop who could avoid holgrams...on *single stage*! As you know, ss is a piece of cake compared to b/c, but still...I`ve simply never known *anybody* IRL would could consistently finish out b/c via rotary, and I`ve known dozens of guys who try.
Yes, I believe that some of my fellow Autopians can do it (that sure includes Stokdgs). But it`s never, not once, been my experience IRL. This is genuinely an alternate reality for me here at Autopia, but then it`s like that on a lotta topics! (Like.."whatdya mean you can keep a daily driver marring-free for years?!?")
OK, OK...I`ll get off it now
Heh heh...IMO the Flex3401 is maybe a Panzer MKIV, but it`s no Tiger by a long shot...that`d be my Cyclo. You. Can`t. Kill. A. Cyclo. (And like a Tiger, the Cyclo is limited by not being able to go just anywhere.) Sorry, couldn`t resist!
I`m digging that Gumman reference though
Hope that`s the case since I have a BOSS15.Stokdgs said:
Eh, back in the day I was the only guy in the shop who could avoid holgrams...on *single stage*! As you know, ss is a piece of cake compared to b/c, but still...I`ve simply never known *anybody* IRL would could consistently finish out b/c via rotary, and I`ve known dozens of guys who try.
Yes, I believe that some of my fellow Autopians can do it (that sure includes Stokdgs). But it`s never, not once, been my experience IRL. This is genuinely an alternate reality for me here at Autopia, but then it`s like that on a lotta topics! (Like.."whatdya mean you can keep a daily driver marring-free for years?!?")
OK, OK...I`ll get off it now
My hats off to those of you Autopians who learned to use a rotary and still do use a rotary for correction and polishing, whether it be on vintage single-stage paint (or white Toyotas) or today`s rock-hard base coat-and-ceramic clear coat paints. We have debated whether long-throw dual-action (LT-DA)buffers have replaced or supplanted rotaries for detailing vehicle correction and polishing. And it would seem, that for detailing, yes, they have. But not in body shops or new vehicle dealerships, where time is money. There is NO debate that a rotary will correct faster. It will also "destroy" (AKA, burn through, swirl, induce holograms, and just plain scratch) paint faster in the hands of the "unskilled" as evidenced in numerous photos by those of you who make a (good) living correcting such faux pas (no, this French term pronounced "foo-pahs" meaning "error or mistake" is not in the auto-correct!). But I digress....
I REALLY want to know if this do-it-all, be-it-all, the-Holy-Grail-of-a-detailing buffing machine will ever come to market and, if so, when. Prototypes and promises are one thing, reality is another. In all honesty, if the added rotary function is a hang-up in the design, I would say drop it and get on with multi-stroke dual-action design and bring this tool to market. AND if too many variable strokes are impeding the design, make it in two machines: one with the two 21mm and 15mm long stroke and one with the 12mm and 8mm short stroke. Yes, ONE machine with four different stokes is ideal, BUT if there is a compromise in performance for any of them in one machine (the jack-of-all-trades but-the-master-of-none) OR longevity of the machine, then maybe two machines may be better. I know the buyer cost-thing is a HUGE part of this development and marketing; the targeted detailer only wants to buy and use ONE machine, not two. But half a loaf is better than none. Maybe a 15mm and 8mm stoke combo is a better design compromise. Just my thoughts in the design process. I know, go big or go home... but I haven`t seen "the big" and this design is still at home. Just sayin`...(Geez, Captain Obvious, you are adding Captain Cliche to your notoriety!)
I REALLY want to know if this do-it-all, be-it-all, the-Holy-Grail-of-a-detailing buffing machine will ever come to market and, if so, when. Prototypes and promises are one thing, reality is another. In all honesty, if the added rotary function is a hang-up in the design, I would say drop it and get on with multi-stroke dual-action design and bring this tool to market. AND if too many variable strokes are impeding the design, make it in two machines: one with the two 21mm and 15mm long stroke and one with the 12mm and 8mm short stroke. Yes, ONE machine with four different stokes is ideal, BUT if there is a compromise in performance for any of them in one machine (the jack-of-all-trades but-the-master-of-none) OR longevity of the machine, then maybe two machines may be better. I know the buyer cost-thing is a HUGE part of this development and marketing; the targeted detailer only wants to buy and use ONE machine, not two. But half a loaf is better than none. Maybe a 15mm and 8mm stoke combo is a better design compromise. Just my thoughts in the design process. I know, go big or go home... but I haven`t seen "the big" and this design is still at home. Just sayin`...(Geez, Captain Obvious, you are adding Captain Cliche to your notoriety!)
felixthecat
Member
I give LC kudos for this machine, when every it comes to the market. I`d rather them take the time & get it right to begin w/ vs throwing out on the market & dealing w/ all the negatives. Look how long it took GM to get the C-4 out & get it right vs what Ford has done w/ the dct equipped Focus/Fiesta`s. IDK the bulk or heft & also the weight of it. It`ll more then likely replace two, possibly three machines. Cost effective, would depend on what brand of machines ppl would buy to begin with. To me it wouldn`t make sense for a shop to have one, if that was the main tool depending on the size of the shop & how many ppl tag team on a vehicle. I`d think it`d depend on what your main clientele is, the size shop you have & how many ppl you have working there. IK that`s another story as far as personal & shop size`s, so I`m not going there. To me the 3401 is the one to beat, for shops.
Loach
New member
Got my hands on the UDOS at MTE on Saturday. Fit and finish looks great, nice and sturdy, well built. The weight of the polisher is actually not as bad as I thought it would be, the heft feels pretty balanced on the paint. It only felt about a half pound heavier than my LHR15. Rotary mode is nice and smooth, long-throw DA modes definitely had some noticeable vibration compared to the LHR15, that`s the trade-off for having a jack of all trades. That $699 is definitely a lot for a polisher, but so is $510 for the Festool Shinex rotary. As well as the amount of money one`s spent to pick up a rotary and 8mm-21mm polishers all separately.
One feature that was a bit of a nuisance for me was the trigger lock, the button seems like its a bit sunken in compared to the button surround, so I had to really get my eyes fixed on it and push it in, whereas with other polishers it`s much more familiar to engage on them. Not a major deal.
I think if they can figure out a way to really dial back the vibrations and balance the action out a bit more on the long-throw modes, I feel like that`s the major issue holding the polisher back at this point for me based on first impressions. They`re definitely very excited to get the tool out in the wild, and I`m looking forward to seeing how it`s received.
One feature that was a bit of a nuisance for me was the trigger lock, the button seems like its a bit sunken in compared to the button surround, so I had to really get my eyes fixed on it and push it in, whereas with other polishers it`s much more familiar to engage on them. Not a major deal.
I think if they can figure out a way to really dial back the vibrations and balance the action out a bit more on the long-throw modes, I feel like that`s the major issue holding the polisher back at this point for me based on first impressions. They`re definitely very excited to get the tool out in the wild, and I`m looking forward to seeing how it`s received.
Baton_Rouge_pro
New member
And here it is, almost 6 months later and all I`ve heard is that there is NO release date now because the weight is over 10lbs, there`s too much vibration and the thing is uncomfortable to hold for any length of time. Oh well.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
At the risk of having said this earlier in this or another thread--this seems like a solution looking for a problem.