Lake Country CCS Pads & A Lesson in Soft Paint

I

imported_Dave KG

New member
Today was Bryan and I's first run out with the new CCS Technology pads from LakeCountry. Many thanks to Tim at CYC for the excellent service in sending out these pads. :thumb:



The pads use periodic recesses in the foam where the foam is closed cell to help prevent the polish from soaking into the foam so in theory you can more thoroughly work a polish as it doesn't soak up into the foam... The design of the pads is shown below, for the white foam pad:







The scrap panel of choice for testing today was a nighthawk black CTR door, so very soft paint was expected here. The door was masked up into three section to initally try out three pad and polish combos. The door before:







General marring here, not parituclarly bad with medium swirls... To tackle this, out first port of call was Menzerna PO106FF Final Finish on the White CCS polishing pad.



A line of polish was applied to a raised section of the pad, and spread over the area at 600rpm. The polish was then worked in at 1200 and then 1500rpm until the residue went clear and finising pass made at 900rpm to refine the finish. The white polishing pad would be roughly equivalent to the Meguiars W8006 Polishing pad. It felt easy to use, the rotary felt comfortable with the pad and it worked the polish very nicely indeed. Buffing off the residue gave the following results:







Defect 99% removed using this combo which would be expected given the reputation for soft Paint on modern Hondas... However, to test this theory (and the orange CCS pad), we decided to use PO85RD3.01 Intensive Polish on the orange CCS pad, followed by PO85RD on the black CCS pad to refine the finish. To start with, the orange pas was pretty stiff and thi made it a little awkward on the rotary with the pad skating a little, but it soon softened up a little and the pad became much easier to effectively control. One at this stage, I personally found it a little easier to control than the burgandy Meguiars pads (both pads being easy to control). The following results were achived:







All defects were thoroughly removed, but at what cost? PTG readings showed on average a clearcoat loss of 10-15um for just the passes with IP! On soft paint, this is a pad and polish combo that you want to think very carefully about before using! Its highly effective, but also removes a lot of paint.



Since the paint was soft, we tried out the lowest abrasive combo we had available for fun too - PO85RD Final Finish on the black CCS pad and it achieved the following results:







90 - 95% defect correction, showing excellently the importance of the "less is more" approach to machine polishing as clearcoat removal to achieve this was within the error of the gauge (+/- 2um).



An important lesson for soft paint here, and we got the steel wool back out to highlight it... Just how little abrasive you need even for more severe marks on softer paints providing you correctly work the polish. Using wire wool, Nryan damaged the door again:







Deeper scratches and swirls this time, along with more general marring as well... One hit of PO85RD Final Finish on the black CCS finsihing pad rmeoved all of the general marring and a good number of the deeper marks as well, leaving a finish 70 - 80% corrected:







Stepping up to PO106FF Final Finish on the white CCS polishing pad yielded nearer 90% correction:







This highlights the importance of trying out low abrasive combinations first before cracking out the big guns as if the paint is soft, light abrasives are all that are needed for a great finish and excellent correction... whethrer you then step up to Intensive Polish and remove 10+um of paint to get the finish 100% defect freee is something you (and the owner if applicable) should think long and hard about, with a full set of thickness readings in front of you to help you decide.



Finally, for those of us kneeling on the ground to get to lower panels on a car, Bryan went all Blue Peter this morning and made a kneeling pad! Take some foam, wrap it in a clear plastic, and seal at the back with stick back plastic (sorry, black tape! :lol: ), and you have yourself a nice cusion that keeps your knees comfy while kneeling and also helps to keep your jeans clean:











Note - only kneel on the pad when it is on the ground, not on the car...



 
Great review, thanks for all the detail. What was your final conclusion on the new pad design compared to the classic LC style?
 
Ah yes, my conclusion on the CCS pads... got carried away with the soft paint thing there... :o



I have not yet tried them on the PC so cannot comment on that just now - I now use my rotary primarily so this was my first place to test them :)



In comparison to the standard design of LakeCountry pads, I personally prefer them. What I was looking to see is that if the claims about the pads were true - and yes, it design does seem to keep the polish more on the paint and stops it from seeping into the pad so much. To this end, I found myself using even less polish than I usually do (with menzerna anyway, and I already only use small amounts of this). I found the pads were on a par with my Meguiars pads which are my staple rotary pad for comfort in use and I personally actually found the light cutting LC pad to be slightly more comfortable than the Megs burgandy though a fairer comparison will see LC yellow up against Megs burgandy.



I like the fact the pads are flat in desing (well, the ones I have are) as I dont likew concave pads on the rotary... Just my personal preference here.



To sum up my feelings, the LC CCS pads I found to be very good on there first outing. I have various other cuts to try and I will be in the near future. They compare well with my Meguiars pads which I love so in this respect they are very good pads... The large degree of cuts available in LC foam is also something I really like about their pads.
 
so u would rather use these than the LC pads?

also what size are you using on ur makita? if they are 7.5 in. do u need to change the backing plate or can we just stick with the 6.5 backing plate for these 7.5 pads? how bout in general with the lc pads 7.5, do u stick with the normal makita backing plate?



thanks.
 
Thanks...I was curious to see what the community thinks of the new pad design. Thanks also for the info in the Honda paint. I've got a 2006, S2000 and it's a real bear to maintain swirl free. Menzerna 106 is the only polish I've found that produces clear, mico-marr free finishes on this paint. Everything else leaves scratches or hazing.
 
^&04types said:
so u would rather use these than the LC pads?

also what size are you using on ur makita? if they are 7.5 in. do u need to change the backing plate or can we just stick with the 6.5 backing plate for these 7.5 pads? how bout in general with the lc pads 7.5, do u stick with the normal makita backing plate?



thanks.
Click to expand...



From now on I will be using both Meguiars and LC CCS pads.



I use 6.5" pads on my rotary using a Meguiars backing plate, I dont use 7.5" so cannot help there I'm afraid...
 
I'm not sure if I like the indentions in the pad. It seems like it will trap dried product in there and create swirling. Even if you spurred it, your spurr can't get into the holes to completely clean it out?
 
David Fermani said:
I'm not sure if I like the indentions in the pad. It seems like it will trap dried product in there and create swirling. Even if you spurred it, your spurr can't get into the holes to completely clean it out?
Click to expand...



I was using the end of a triple duty detail brush to remove product from the holes, though most of it was staying on the raised sections of the pad... The indentations are large enough to easily get a small detailing brush into.
 
Good point there David. That might be a problem with those pads. How would you compare the CCS pads to Edge's 2K pads?
 
David Fermani said:
I'm not sure if I like the indentions in the pad. It seems like it will trap dried product in there and create swirling. Even if you spurred it, your spurr can't get into the holes to completely clean it out?
Click to expand...



I've polished a complete car with a CCS pad and the PC and haven't had an issue. It might be an issue with a thick aggressive compound but then again you always follow with a less aggressive product.
 
I haven't run into that issue either. I've finished whole soft paint black cars with one blue pad and didn't have any dried polish issues and that was using Menzerna.
 
That paint is like deep space mate. Awesome review

Thank you for informing me on soft paint



Interesting thought Mr Fermani however I'd say the pockets are not touching the paint so it should be fine. I thought some product when I start would go into the pockets but I never get any in them



They are lovely pads and I like the amount to choose from
 
The reason why I brought the issue of swirling up is mostly due to the design of LC's Tufted final finish foam pads (rotary usage). I've experienced 1st hand problems with these pads on some finishes because dried product gets trapped in between their "fingers" and creates swirls. The only way I could finish it out properly was by switching pads because I couldn't spur/clean the pad thorough enough due to the design. I have a suspicion that the CCS pad could pose this same problem? I’m afraid that while buffing, wet or dried product will get trapped inside the indentions/craters and could induce swirling. I think when I use my specific line of products, it's important they stay wet and do not dry out/get over polished. I also spur my pad at least 1 time per panel to avoid dried product. **This may not be an issue with everyone, especially when using a product that isn't sensitive to drying (Menzerna)**. Also, this may not pose that much of a problem when used in a PC environment due to less heat and friction being created. BTW, I love LC’s wool pads and are mostly what I use.
 
If so, what is stopping it from happening with the flat eurotech pads. Where is the dried product gonna go then

So far no dramas for me but thanks anyway. I'll keep a sharp lookout for any hassles with CCS
 
SVR said:
If so, what is stopping it from happening with the flat eurotech pads. Where is the dried product gonna go then

So far no dramas for me but thanks anyway. I'll keep a sharp lookout for any hassles with CCS
Click to expand...



I think with flat style foam pads (any manufacturer) you have the abiltiy to spur/clean the whole surface that is making contact with finish and this doesn't pose any drying problems. The waffle, tufted and CCS style pads have pockets or spaces that are not cleanable(practically speaking). Do you think this is a valid possibilty?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top