klasse vs. zaino (yawn)

as a "man of science", I like things a little more structured, and that's how I like posts



try a product, report it, lists the pros and cons, list the conditions under which your test was performed etc



then you can list all the bs that goes along after it, but separate the two for people who want the true unadulturated information without the garbage. if we all separate our posts into two parts clean cut info and then crap, hehe, it'll be easier to take the crap out later. (just my 2 cents of many more to come)



(doesn't mean you can joke around a little too :p)
 
Steve9185,



I have thought of having a senior members forum, but that does not solve the problem we;re having now.



The issue is one of people being up on a soap box about a product or product line. It gets old. We're here to discuss detailing, not to impose on people our personal preferences. Tell people what you like, by all means, but then leave it alone.



DK, I think you have gone too far with imposing your opinions of Klasse vs. Zaino. Enough already. Find a new crusade my friend.



In a few short weeks their will be two new products to talk about. Both of them will be excellent, I'm sure, and will change our thinking about "Show Car" polishes. I plan to try them both and give my feedback. In the end, I will choose one as my favorite and stick with it until the next inovative idea goes into a bottle. After I have made my thoughts known, you won't likely hear from me on the subject again... and that's how it should be. Progress.



What I'd really like to see is some new discussions. We have not even begun to explore detailing to the degree of winning a car show.



db
 
This thread -- the very thesis put forward at the beginning -- is inflammatory. .

It is not surprizing that the posts that followed were critical, when the thread subject itself was provocative.

I suggest that threads be on constructive subjects.

If any of us perceives a problem, rather than making a general criticism on the public board, I suggest sending a PM to the party you believe is violating a rule and, if that fails, sending a PM to a moderator.

If for some reason in it proper to bring up what one considers a general failing, then it should be brought up in a way designed to bring about a <em class='bbc'>resolution[/i] of the problem. Othewise, the post will appear to be fault-finding -- mere complaint, critcism and degrade of others -- without a constructive end.

So, when adventuring into any assertion of a wide-spread failing, it is best to follow up that negative statement with a positive statement - a proposed <em class='bbc'>solution[/i] to the failing. That gives people help -- a means to correct or avoid the stated wide-spread failing.

The suggested solution should, itself, be constructive, real, and objective. For example, a suggested "solution" that "people stop acting so @&*# dumb" is not a solution. It is simply more criticism and degrade of others. A suggestion that "posters make sure not to direct personal remarks toward others, but focus on objective matters" is a solution. It is something one can think with and apply.

Hopefully, this post is an example of that approach, as I ended it with a positive suggestion as to how to remedy the earlier problem I discussed -- rather than simply criticising.
 
some people have new age touchy feely remedies for problems, others like to take it into the street. i'm somewhere in the happy medium. you got your way of doin' things, and others have got theirs. be it neither of our place to say that the other is wrong.



i'm sure you'd agree that your 2+ months here gives you a different perspective of things, having already come into the message board more or less in this current state of being, then someone like myself and others, who has been visiting for 2+ years. the more time you invest in something, the more ardent you will become about it. walk a mile in my shoes.



the beginning of this thread was a coalesence of how many people felt. sometimes you gotta be provacative, buddy.
 
conflict is coming FROM Senior members! People here are bored, frustrated because of recent events and have no other outlet for their rage except maybe here. Understandable, that's why I don't take too much seriously. And the members that are saying, "Well, there are problems and I probably contributed to some of them but....." is also a cop-out. Your also part of the problem. What's happening here happens at every forum I've been to, natural progression. Familiararity breeds contempt, I for one would like to apoligize to anyone I may have offended. I did not mean it.
 
As one just starting to enjoy this detailing stuff, I think a lot of this comparison is like comparing an Audi S4 versus BMW M3; both great cars particularly when compared to a Yugo or many others. The owners of these cars however can take criticism, particularly unfair criticism, really personal because of their passion. Edmonds solves this by having car specific parts of their forums, where owners of specific cars can be as lavish and gushy as they want.



A few months back, I researched Klasse and Zaino on this forum and actually picked Klasse simply because I had to buy an extra product with Zaino for my one non clearcoat car. The Klasse really works for me, as I am sure Zaino would have, but I will be Klassing for several more years until the product is gone, then I will decide again.



Until then, all I want is general detailing tips or tips around using Klasse. It is frustrating to ask a question around the use of Klasse and get a few responses about techniques that obviously don't apply. My suggestion is why wouldn't you set up a general detailing section, a Klasse section, and a Zaino section. That would allow a newbie to poke around freely in each section and the Klasse or Zaino users can be as lavish as they want. It would also allow learning detailers like me to ask specific questions only to those who should be answering. It would also allow the passionate users to freely discuss their product without it being taken wrong.



Just a thought. I still like this forum; great information and knowledge.



Mike
 
I like this forum. If anyone has a problem with it leave. It is that simple. Please don't come on here and post everything on here that you do not like and add to the little negativity that is on here. I do not see all this negativity the long time members are talking about. There is very little. This is a very helpful website. It sounds like a lot of long time members are upset that someone found out their secret and are wrongfully taking it out on us newbies. :)
 
you know, maybe we need a third brand...that Klasse and Zaino lovers can attack as our common enemy ;) (I thought it used to be Zymol for one time)...so that we can respect each other and unite...





that's what sept 11 event made us anyway...
 
I debated whether to add to this discussion.



I, too, have been silent (almost) for more than a month. Part of my absence is work related; part not.



I joined the forum in the spring and I recall the entry page telling me that the "old" forum was closing on such date and the new forum was starting up on so.



I miss the camaraderie of my early days here. Thanks again Don for the MF towel. (I know I still owe both you and Brad Leatherique samples.) But, most of all, thanks to all the "old" guys for making me understand that I could achieve results that I could only imagine before I got here and for helping me see how much enjoyment I could get from taking car of my own vehicles.



Things are different. Some of the changes are with me; others are with this place. That's not necessarily bad -- or good -- just different.



Like others, I have heard enough of the Klasse/Zaino war. For the record, I use both and am quite happy with them in their respective applications. As Beau said in May or June -- it isn't the product; it's the technique that counts.



So, let's get back to that. I desperately need to know how Brad does the wires on his XK150FHC (actually, I remember that thread well) -- and how to detail the suspension parts of my XKR in case I decide to show it next month (maybe twice, St. L and Indy) -- and how to get the best finish on the rough cast aluminum engine bits -- and on and on and on.



Shiny paint is not the finish line. It's the first step. How about we treat it as such?
 
Personally, I love this forum. I also love the advice given so I can enhance my skill set. Maybe one day, I will be on a par with Jason, DK, or Ron K.



But on the Klasse vs Zaino debate, I mentioned that I wanted both in my collection because I know that different vehicles (due to characteristics in paint) respond better to different waxes/sealants. Don't get me wrong, I love my Klasse on the Maxima. But since I am thinking about going into business, I do need to be adaptable when it comes to different vehicles.
 
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