Klasse Theory II: Dwell time/cure time- same time?

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porterdog

New member
Some recent posts recommend a 24hr dwell time. It's long been accepted that a 24 cure time between coats is a good idea.



So... dwell 24 hrs, buff, cure 24hrs more?



Or... dwell/cure 24 hrs, buff, reapply?



R



PS- I'll be doing the second regardless, just curious about what others think.
 
I am sure you know that it depends on the solvents used in the product. According to the Klasse instructions concerning buffing the product it appears that AIO dwells and cures faster than SG. Other than that it appears to be a guessing game. I believe it was Intel486 that discovered that a longer dwell time for SG seemed to improve the ease of buffing off the product and improved the shine.
 
rightlane's correct. From what I've heard, AIO is on and off, no need to wait for dwell or cure.



SG depends on who you speak with. General concensus is wait atleast 20 minutes before buffing off, but the longer the better. May people wait 1 hour or more, some (with garage) wait 24 hrs before buffing. After buffing, people wait 24 hours to reapply to allow the SG to cure. I wonder though, those people that already waited one day before buffing off, do they also wait an additional day to cure.



Btw, just to add some mroe confusion, some recent posts have thought about experimenting by rapid succession layering.
 
AARRGH!!! I used to know the answer to this from turning the Archives upside-down and shaking it, but I've got it all mixed up now. :(



It's been well established that the longer you let SG sit before buffing, the better. The archives are full of this advice. Tim from Tacscar apparently does this with what sounds like an incredibly thick coat of SG.



Personally, I'd just reapply the next coat after buffing. As long as you don't apply too heavily, I figure the residue on top won't interfere too badly with exposure to air. Also, some people apply back to back, and I'm too impatient anyway. :p
 
Yep, I like to leave SG on for 24 hours.



I've started to notice the well know Klasse haze on my trucks hood. The direction of the haze goes in the direction I apply Klasse SG. I buff at a different angle. Problem is the haze goes in the same direction that I wash the hood too. I'll be checking my roof, bedcover, and other side panels when I wash my truck again.



I might have to do some testing to see what is causing it. I've noticed the microfiber wash mit from CMA seems pretty rough! I'm going to wash it out really well and test it out on a CD both dry and with car soap to see if it leaves any scratches. I'll try to do that soon.
 
Intel,



Sorry to hear that you are starting to get it too. Back when I was using Klasse, that haze would bug the crap out of me. No matter how many different techniques I tried and how hard I tried to get them off, sure enough the haze would be there right after the first wash.



It really isn't all that discernible and if you don't look closely you might not see it. Actually, I guess it depends a lot on the kind of lighting you are viewing it under. Under direct sunlight on a black car, they are very obvious. They kinda look like swirl-marks.
 
I usually leave the SG on for 1-4 hours, but never more. I thin k that the longer is sits, the more it bonds to your paint, and therefor the harder it is to remove.:nixweiss



Lots of small coats are better than 1 big coat, IMHO!



I have already gotten best results from this, especially on black cars.
 
Intermezzo said:
Intel,



Sorry to hear that you are starting to get it too. Back when I was using Klasse, that haze would bug the crap out of me. No matter how many different techniques I tried and how hard I tried to get them off, sure enough the haze would be there right after the first wash.



It really isn't all that discernible and if you don't look closely you might not see it. Actually, I guess it depends a lot on the kind of lighting you are viewing it under. Under direct sunlight on a black car, they are very obvious. They kinda look like swirl-marks.
Click to expand...



I'm not sure what is causing it though. I need to see... I'm really thinking it might be my microfiber wash mit... it seems pretty rough. I need to run it through the wash machine a few times to make sure it is perfectly clean and then do the CD test.



As soon as I get 5 layers on I think I'm gonna strip the hood of Klasse, colorsand it (few light etches and scratches, few chips I need to repair) and then buff it to a perfect shine. I'll then start layering Klasse SG on it again. I'll apply it in one direction, buff it off in another direction, and wash it in yet another directions... I hope I can find enough directions! I'll then be able to see what part of application causes the Klasse Hazing. I think it is applications or washing. Haze anyone tried applying Klasse SG wth a foam applicator instead of a MF one? Maybe it has something to do with the MF applicators.



I've been buffing the layers off really well and then fogging the paint up and looking for streaks to make sure I got them all. I heard someone else doing this in an attempt to see about preventing the haze.
 
Can someone post a clear picture of this klasse haze?

I would really like to see it!



I had swirl mark like haze appear on my car once which I found out was my polymer sealant was not coating the paint evenly,

I found that straight strokes of the applicator where not working the sealant evenly in to the paint. I was getting ridges and valley type buildup of the sealant as I was applying it.



so now I work my sealant in to the paint using overlapping oval strokes. This has cured the swirl like effects I was getting.



I do think if you leave SG on for 24Hours before buffing off then surely the SG has cured. Buffing is only removing the material which has not bonded to the vehicle!



regards,

Tarkan
 
tarkan said:
Can someone post a clear picture of this klasse haze?

I would really like to see it!
Click to expand...



People have posted pictures of it before.



It kinda looks like fine swirls... kinda like the swirls a rotary buffer will leave.



I may have to try applying it in an overlapping oval pattern... Just that everyone here said do wax in a back and forth motion. Guess we'll be going back to the good ole' circular motion!
 
yeah I can notice the haze on my hood and roof, but not the trunk, under the sunlight at different angles. Under the shade the car looks excellent. Everytime I see that haze under the sun I get so annoyed. :(
 
You just want the SG to fully dry before buffing. Or else, you'll have a harder time getting off the excess because you'd also be smearing the SG around if it hasn't completely dried. The wait time will depend on temp., humidity, how thick a layer you put on, etc.



In the end, the longer you wait, the more of a chance that it's fully dried. That's why CMA has always said in their little Klasse booklet that waiting 24 hours before buffing SG will make the process a lot easier.



Even if you're using Klasse, read the Zaino directions. The same ideas apply, as both are polymer sealants. He goes over how long to wait before buffing off, how long to wait in between coats, etc.
 
Klasse Haze: This pic is of BigBoyHF's car, I think. They look like swirl-marks, but when buffing the area with a towel, BB reported that the 'swirls' would re-align themselves in the direction he buffed the surface.
 
I see a "haze" on my glasses, no matter what direction I rub in, it's like they migrate to the direction of your last buffing. On my glasses it's from the oils on my hands/face that causes it. Perhaps some sort of residue it happening (you guys all shaking your containers of SG?)



Anyone get hazing with AIO only? It might be worth it to try AIO and wait a week or two and see if you still get it? Also, anyone try not using QD on their car. QD might have oils in it that might just sit on top of the Klasse leaving the haze. It's the same theory why people don't top with wax (for some anyways) So going with my theory, does it wash off? Wash your car, dry with a towel you know for a fact doesn't have any oily residue and see if it is still there.



As for cure time and dwell time you can have cure time = dwell time then buff, but the only problem is the dwell time allow debris to settle on your car and then when you buff it might cause scratching (obviously it helps if you have a garage).



Has anyone gone from seeing the haze to not seeing it and wondering where it went? (or vice versa?)
 
I've read that there's different kinds of haze as well. The "oily/swirly" kind like in Intermezzo's pic, and an actual condensation-like white haze.



I'm just glad I don't have it! :eek: (Knocks on wood.)



YoSteve makes an interesting point about shaking AIO/SG before using them. I did this religiously even though I'd dispensed them into tiny squirt bottles. One thing I also thought of was QD use between coats. I often forgot to shake my QD before using it (I do it now). So far this hasn't caused me grief, but I wonder if this could potentially cause problems? :nixweiss
 
YoSteve said:


...

Has anyone gone from seeing the haze to not seeing it and wondering where it went? (or vice versa?)
Click to expand...

Yes.

I had the oily kind that changed with the direction of the last pass with the MF towel.

It did not go away after washing the car.

Problem was solved as I learned to apply a thin layer of SG.
 
Intermezzo said:
Klasse Haze: This pic is of BigBoyHF's car, I think. They look like swirl-marks, but when buffing the area with a towel, BB reported that the 'swirls' would re-align themselves in the direction he buffed the surface.
Click to expand...
I'm going to hazard a guess here that there is some form of moisture under the layer and/or the SG has not been able to fully bond/setup. If I recall correctly, the Klasse directions state to use a dry applicator for SG (someone correct me if I got this backwards).



This would make sense if the applicator trapped any moisture or if there were QD residue left over from buffing a previous layer (remeber the recommendation from previous posts about using QD or water spritzed on to help when the SG was difficult to buff off?).



To the best of my knowledge, I've not had the hazing problem, but I have a Cool White Jetta, so it would not be very apparent. I happen to live only 10 miles or so south of BigBoy, so the weather issue would be relatively the same for us (humidity, temperature, etc.).



I'd love to find a definitve answer to this question.
 
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