This weekend i had an interesting experiance with Klasse SG. I used it, using the Bill North method- wipe on , wipe off. and in some areas using the quick detail to remove more difficult areas. Everything went as planned. The next day, approx. 18 hrs later, i went out with the family and i noticed that i had missed an area of about 2 by 2 on the back that still had resedue left on it. I began to panick thinking about all the threads that i have read regarding Klasse being left on too long. I was starting to think that it was going to be like glue, and that i would have to press harder leaving a possibility of scrathing the well prepped paint, especially on black. To make a long story short, i alwayes keep a MF towel and a quick detail bottle in my trunk incase of minor bird accidents. I got my towel and quick detail and began to take the old 18 hr left on Klasse resedue off. What i noticed was a surprise, i noticed that without using the quick detail, i was able to take the resedue off very easily. I mean, this stuff came off like if it were baby powder, no smearing, no pressing hard, and no added quick detail. This left me thinking all through dinner with my family. What have i just learned here? Is it possible, that we are taking Klasse SG off way to soon and giving ourselves alot more headaches than we need? Are we so impatient that we cannot wait for at least 1 hr for Klasse to fully powder up and dry before we take it off? My questions to all Klasse users are these, are we letting Klasse do what it is supposed to be doing? Are we not letting it bond as a polymer should? Are we just expecting it to work like a carnuba wax, and expecting it to bond almost immediatly? This experiance this weekend realy left me thinking. Maybee all that work on trying to remove Klasse after applying it, trying to keep smearing from occuring, was just caused by not waiting long enough. I challenge Klasse users to try this. Apply let sit for 1 hr and then remove. See what your experiances are..
Klasse SG experiance - A MUST READ!
- Thread starter jab
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togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
~One man’s opinion, observation~
· After sufficient drying time do a quick swipe test with your finger. If no smearing or drag is evident, the product is ready to be removed
· Remove AIO as soon as it starts to ‘haze’ (set-up) this makes residues easier to remove than to allow the product to completely dry, and unlike wax, there is no benefit in doing so.
· Residues should be dry when you buff them. If the residues are still wet, you are using too much water on the applicator or too much product.
I would add this is a revision to my original thinking on this, after a discussion with BillNorth. I am definitely open to new ideas, and in fact strongly endorse trying new procedures
~Hope this helps~
Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/
justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*
· After sufficient drying time do a quick swipe test with your finger. If no smearing or drag is evident, the product is ready to be removed
· Remove AIO as soon as it starts to ‘haze’ (set-up) this makes residues easier to remove than to allow the product to completely dry, and unlike wax, there is no benefit in doing so.
· Residues should be dry when you buff them. If the residues are still wet, you are using too much water on the applicator or too much product.
I would add this is a revision to my original thinking on this, after a discussion with BillNorth. I am definitely open to new ideas, and in fact strongly endorse trying new procedures
~Hope this helps~
Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/
justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*
SK2003TypeS
New member
The few times I've used SG, I've waited a half hour to an hour. I was able to remove it without any problems. Maybe a needed a QD squirt on the spots where I blotted the inital spot before spreading it over the paint.
As mentioned, I just did the smear test prior to removing it and it's worked fine for me in the past. I do the same thing with Zaino (which I use more often) with great results.
Last spring I did a coat of Zaino and let it sit overnight. The next day it came off really easily. Kinda like the "baby powder" mentioned.
So from my take, it comes down to a number of variables (environment, temperature, humidity, etc.)
The Bill North approach sounds like a great time saver. I haven't done any SG works since reading the wipe on, wipe off threads though, so I think I'll try it next time.
As mentioned, I just did the smear test prior to removing it and it's worked fine for me in the past. I do the same thing with Zaino (which I use more often) with great results.
Last spring I did a coat of Zaino and let it sit overnight. The next day it came off really easily. Kinda like the "baby powder" mentioned.
So from my take, it comes down to a number of variables (environment, temperature, humidity, etc.)
The Bill North approach sounds like a great time saver. I haven't done any SG works since reading the wipe on, wipe off threads though, so I think I'll try it next time.
jab said:
Jab, I've repeated myself 1000 times about this. I don't like waitng one hour. In my experience SG is HARDER to remove with a DRY towel after waiting 1 hour. I've actually marred my paint because I buffed so hard in some areas. Maybe it get's easier after letting the residue dry for 24 hours. I don't know, and I'm not about to find out. Waiting a whole day to let the SG residue dry before buffing is rediculous. My car is a daily driver not a show car. I need to go out and do stuff. I'm not about to let my car sit in the garage for 24 hours just so I can buff the SG off easier when I can use wipe on wipe off and achieve the same results.
I know what you are going to say, "why don't you just drive your car around with the residue on it and then wash it the next day to remove the residue". Sorry, like I've said before, polymers realistically need 1 week to cure and crosslink. Introducing water before the week is up will mess up the curing process. Also, washing again just takes up so much extra unnecessarty time. It makes SG into a total PITA product. Who would want to use it like this, regardless of how good it is? Not many people.
My questions to all Klasse users are these, are we letting Klasse do what it is supposed to be doing? Are we not letting it bond as a polymer should? Are we just expecting it to work like a carnuba wax, and expecting it to bond almost immediatly?
As I've said multiple times, curing and drying are two totally different things. They have no bearing on one another. Regardless of when you buff off your SG there is still product left behind on the paint. THAT is what cures and bonds, not the drying residue you are waiting 1 minute or 24 hours to buff off.
As I've said before, the wipe on wipe off recomendation came directly from klasse.
I challenge Klasse users to try this. Apply let sit for 1 hr and then remove. See what your experiances are..
Buddy, I've been there. We've all been there. You're not breaking new ground. You're just trampling the grass that's already there.
Sorry to be a harsh p@#$k. But I hate it when people don't read and pay attention to popular trends in the forum. Typing screen long replies over and over again is not fun....
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR......
Bill. :wavey
Jesstzn
New member
I haven't used SG yet .. but I am going to. I currently use Zaino.
One thing I keep seeing that kind of bothers me is that the crosslinking (curing) takes time .. like possibly a week. So what is happening to the crosslinking when
a) people are using a QD spray ( I'm sure most contain water ) to help with product removal.
b) People apply layer number 2 on day 2. Has layer 1 finished crosslinking?
c) Washing the car within a week? Does this impact the crosslinking thus shorten the durability?
To me it sounds like the optimum way to apply it is the BN method then wash after a week and apply layer 2 using the BN method etc etc. up to the desired layers.
BTW its not the crosslinking time that bothers me its some of the things done during this time.
One thing I keep seeing that kind of bothers me is that the crosslinking (curing) takes time .. like possibly a week. So what is happening to the crosslinking when
a) people are using a QD spray ( I'm sure most contain water ) to help with product removal.
b) People apply layer number 2 on day 2. Has layer 1 finished crosslinking?
c) Washing the car within a week? Does this impact the crosslinking thus shorten the durability?
To me it sounds like the optimum way to apply it is the BN method then wash after a week and apply layer 2 using the BN method etc etc. up to the desired layers.
BTW its not the crosslinking time that bothers me its some of the things done during this time.
Bill, what is wrong with expressing my experiance. Yes i have read the threads and have tried your methode many times, and yes it works well. My main point was to have people try this and expirament. If it worked well for me, by pure accident i found out that it was much easier to remove.Why not have have those who are complaining about the removal process try it. Or is the Bill Noth method the ONLY WAY to use this product. Not trying to disrespect anyones opinions but that is all that i was trying to do , express an opinion!
Jesstzn said:
You make good points.
a. I am personally against QD'ing of any kind, regardless of when. The more you touch your car the more you will marr it. Too many people expect a a show car 365 days a year.
b. That's why I personally wait week. 24 hours is the minmum.
c. Again, it comes down to people wanting a show car 365 days a year. Washing multiple times a week expecting show car quality every day is insane. People need to be more realistic about their daily driven cars.
To me it sounds like the optimum way to apply it is the BN method then wash after a week and apply layer 2 using the BN method etc etc. up to the desired layers.
This is EXACTLY what I do. Take a look at the official wipe on off instructional thread I started.
Bill.
jab said:
There is nothing wrong with expressing your experience. But asking members to try a method that has been done before is pointless. Bringing up the same questrions and concerns that have been discussed before is also pointless. This "epiphony" you had on the weekend is more like deja vu. You must have read numerous threads about the one hour wait time.
WOO is not the only way to do it. If you like waiting 24 hours, then go ahead. But If WOO offrs all the benefits of SG then I don't see why you want to wait the extra time. Waiting is more cumbersome than using WOO. The objective should be to achieve the expected results as easily as possible. WOO offers us that.
Bill.
How do you know that SG is bonding the way it should? Are you a chemist? Who made you the expert on this product? What works for you is not the only way to go. If the world ran on one opinion, what kind of world would we live on. I guess we wouldnt travel too far for fear of falling off the end of the world becouse someone said the world was flatt. Come on Bill. Bill, the last thing that i want to do is decredit you from your input, becauase you have a lot of good points. All that i ask is that you encourage other users to try different methods. Let them figure it out, hek for all we know, we are both wrong. Yes if i am i will admitt it. I am not a chemist nor do i know everything about this product. I will try anything that helps me use this product in a better way. You have to remember that many new readers come on this site to gain info and try to develope different techniques. What works for one person does not mean that this will be the only way to use the product. Many users find that they need to practice with products, and find different methods for better results, and this is something a deffinetly encourage people to do.
I used to apply SG in the evening and wait until the next day to remove. I now use the wipe on / wipe off method. In my experience both methods removed the SG with very little effort and neither method was easier or harder. I could not tell any difference in shine, gloss, beading, sheeting, or durability. The only difference I have noted is that I finish the WOO method all at once and do not have to worry about accumulating dust overnight before removing the SG.
imported_jgv
New member
And you also get immediate results
jab said:
Again, I'm forced to repeat myself.
How do you know that SG is bonding the way it should?
Time and experience using this method have shown me that WOO does not hurt the bonding, curing and crosslinking of SG.
Are you a chemist?
No. But again, for the millionth time, we used to have a chemist on this board who advised us (the board) of things like this.
Who made you the expert on this product?
Expert I am not. But I do have experience. And I just wish that people would start listening instead of letting their paranoia take over.
What works for you is not the only way to go.
Agreed. But I don't want your paranoia scaring other members though. MANY people have tried WOO and are happy with it. Let that do the talking for WOO and not unbased paranoia.
All that i ask is that you encourage other users to try different methods.
The method and concerns you have brought up have been discussed umpteen times. As said previously, you're not breaking new ground. I don't have to encourage or discourage anyone from trying it because they already have.
I realize the the tone of my posts is not the friendliest, and I don't wanna fight with you. You have the right to your opinion. But don't throw everything that has been said here out the window due to unbased fears you have. Just use WOO and let time be your proof.
Stop worrying for gawd's sake!!!
Bill.
jab said:
Now you're changing your tune. In your first post you were skeptical about WOO. Re-read it to see what I mean. Now you are saying that there are different ways to achieve the same results. So now, all of sudden WOO works well... and so does waiting an hour.
Oh brother!!!!
jab said:
Now now, I'm not the master. I still have lots to learn. But I'd like to learn new things.
I simply pointed out that you were backtracking/ flip-flopping. No need to get all bitter on me.
BTW, again I'm repeating myslef, what you've stated is nothing new. Do a search and you'll see tonnes of threads covering this.
Bill.
:waveyimported_jgv
New member
My two points about this issue in discussion:
1) I have a 1 L bottle of SG siting around since March 2003, almost without use. I don't like to be slave of my products, I like to use them and go away watch the results
. That's why I had it there, cause as for everyones opinions I had to wait a lot of time before removing it.
2) Since BN brought this new way of application I started enjoying my SG and really using it. I do notice a before/after difference on the surface (as others did) when using SG with this new method, meaning it's there.
Don't nobody ask me to go back and wait 1 hour or 18 hours or more for my product. There are so many out there that I would put it aside again.
1) I have a 1 L bottle of SG siting around since March 2003, almost without use. I don't like to be slave of my products, I like to use them and go away watch the results
. That's why I had it there, cause as for everyones opinions I had to wait a lot of time before removing it.2) Since BN brought this new way of application I started enjoying my SG and really using it. I do notice a before/after difference on the surface (as others did) when using SG with this new method, meaning it's there.
Don't nobody ask me to go back and wait 1 hour or 18 hours or more for my product. There are so many out there that I would put it aside again.
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