Klasse durability

T

tony_passat

New member
I've been using Klasse on my Silverstone Passat and my wife's black MDX, mainly because of its reputation for durability. I've used AIO and 2 coats of SG for each car. They both looked great and felt super slick when I finished them, but after the first rain or wash, that slickness was gone. Zip, zilch, nada, nothing. Feels like nothing's on the car. I understand that it's probably still there and protecting the car, but with no tactile feedback it's really hard to tell when the car needs more. Also, unlike a carnuba (with its inherent beading action), it's much more difficult to tell if the Klasse is doing its job. Even after spraying with QD after a wash, the slick feeling doesn't return. With a carnuba (I was using Blitz), any quick detailer would rejuvinate that "slick" feeling. I guess I'm just a little disappointed in Klasse thus far, especially since it takes so many coats of SG to get it looking good. I realize some people do 5+ coats of SG, and I've only done 2. But I'd really be upset, if after 5 coats, the first rain or wash undoes all the fruits of my labor.



Any thoughts?



Tony
 
I understand that I could top the SG with something (ie. PUPP or even a carnuba) for slickness, but my disappointment was really with the SG, based soley on its own merits.



When a wax (polymer or natural) slicks and beads on its own, I know its doing its job on its own. If it requires a topper of some sort, that doesn't tell me much at all about the durability or effectiveness on its own.



Sometimes I think, why even use the SG? Why not go immediately from AIO to S100 or Blitz or PUPP, etc? The SG is not terribly easy to use (albeit easier since the Bill North method), and I'm not convinced of its durability, I've read of no conclusive studies on it's durability. All I know for sure is that it looks great upon completion and until the first rain. Somehow, that doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.



Tony
 
If you like to see beading, then Klasse is not your product. Try UPP or Z, or carnaubas. But if you're into long last protection, then this is where Klasse and Z lives.



The lack of slickness and beading makes it difficult to tell if there is any protection. However, as you will find if you run a search, beading has no relation to protection. Fresh paint out of a booth will bead. Pledge will bead. And for slickness, it's nice, but it doesn't have any protective properties.



How do you know if there is any protection?



Take a small section, and apply an SMR or paint cleanser to it. Wash it off and observe the different behaviour of water on the two different areas. Now leave it for a week and wash again. You WILL notice a difference. After a while, you get used to how it looks when the Klasse is still protecting.



It's kind of difficult to explain. The Klasse beads if you wash and dry and then wet again. I know I had trouble with this when I first started with Klasse almost a year ago, and kept wanting to re-apply. That's perfectly fine, as SG layers. However, it's not necessary.
 
2wheelsx2 said:




How do you know if there is any protection?



Take a small section, and apply an SMR or paint cleanser to it. Wash it off and observe the different behaviour of water on the two different areas. Now leave it for a week and wash again. You WILL notice a difference. After a while, you get used to how it looks when the Klasse is still protecting.



It's kind of difficult to explain. The Klasse beads if you wash and dry and then wet again. I know I had trouble with this when I first started with Klasse almost a year ago, and kept wanting to re-apply. That's perfectly fine, as SG layers. However, it's not necessary.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the tip and insightful post. I'll definitely give it a try. :xyxthumbs



Tony
 
tony_passat said:
I've been using Klasse on my Silverstone Passat and my wife's black MDX, mainly because of its reputation for durability. I've used AIO and 2 coats of SG for each car. They both looked great and felt super slick when I finished them, but after the first rain or wash, that slickness was gone. Zip, zilch, nada, nothing. Feels like nothing's on the car. I understand that it's probably still there and protecting the car, but with no tactile feedback it's really hard to tell when the car needs more. Also, unlike a carnuba (with its inherent beading action), it's much more difficult to tell if the Klasse is doing its job. Even after spraying with QD after a wash, the slick feeling doesn't return. With a carnuba (I was using Blitz), any quick detailer would rejuvinate that "slick" feeling. I guess I'm just a little disappointed in Klasse thus far, especially since it takes so many coats of SG to get it looking good. I realize some people do 5+ coats of SG, and I've only done 2. But I'd really be upset, if after 5 coats, the first rain or wash undoes all the fruits of my labor.



Any thoughts?



Tony
Click to expand...



SG does lose it's slickness after a couple of washes, no doubt about it. SG, even when fresh does not bead in my experience. SG sheets water. Even after months of being on my car my sg sheets water like a champion. I'd be very surprised if your SG ever beaded water like a pure carnuba does. Once you use klasse a bit more you'll get better at 'seeing' the protection. You'll also get better at determining when the current layer(s) need rejuvination.



Rest assured though, your klasse is protecting your paint. If it weren't good at protecting I would have dumped it a long time ago. Funny thing is, I'm so impressed with k's durability that it has actually stopped me from trying other sealants. Every time I consider it I always I ask my self 'why bother'?



Give 2wheelsx2's suggestion a try. You'll see what I was I referring to about 'seeing' the protection.



But in the end, not everyone will love klasse. If slickness and beading are your thing, then go with z...



Bill.
 
Remember, bare paint sheets water, but it does so in a sticky sort of way. So if you're beading up, you've got something on the paint.



Fwiw, I've got Klasse on my wifes Volvo (AIM & SG). It's red, and oxidizes in about 3 minutes if the wax is gone off it. So I can tell when something isn't there to protect it.



Being less than fanatical about washing and waxing, it's gotten it's fall protection for winter and we're going through it. I'm justifying it as an experiment. :D



The car sheeted water the first week or two, and then started beading up like conventional wax. The surface still shined well under the dirt. It's now something like 2, 2.5 months later, and it's still beading water and looking very shiny under the dirt. If I go over a test area with a wet wipe, it looks glorious. I think I did hit one corner with a QD, and it looked just about like it did when I first applied the Klassee back in the fall.
 
If SG is followed by good carnuba, wouldnt this combination make water bead? Wouldnt the carnuba cause the water to bead just like if applied without SG? Asside from adding depth, isnt this why one would use a carnuba as a topper?
 
The durability of Klasse is what makes me keep using it. Five months later every time I wash the car I am amazed at how well it looks. I haven't been able to say that from using any carnauba wax, BlackFire, or EX (actually never went 5 months with the EX but did not think it looked any better than the SG on my wifes white CRV). When I wash the car and see how easily the dirt and grime comes off and get the stunning reflection of SG, I definitely know that it is still there protecting.



If I want beading then I slap on a coat of S100.

If I want slickness, I whip out the Quickshine or spend 30 minutes on another coat of SG.

If I want great looking durability, I make sure I have AIO and SG for a base.



My wife's car does not get the attention that my car does so I use the Klasse twins and she is thrilled with the way it looks after every wash. I usually use S100 or EX on my car since I rarely go over a month without doing something to it. However, for the winter months when I can't wax my car whenever I get the urge, I make sure it has AIO and SG because I know it is good for several months until Spring. No matter how cold I can always get the QEW out in the garage and be looking good to go.



IMHO, the longer you leave the AIO/SG on your car the more impressed you will be with it.
 
~One man’s opinion, observation~





Acrylic resins are hydrophobic (lacking an affinity for water) which causes ‘water sheeting’.



Carnauba Wax is inherently hydroscopic (readily taking up and retaining moisture,

when exposed to water, wax swells and closes its pores, which causes water ‘beading’







~Hope this helps~





Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/



justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*
 
foxtrapper said:
Remember, bare paint sheets water, but it does so in a sticky sort of way.

Click to expand...



Yes, you do bring up a good point. I should have been more clear in my intial description. The SG sheets water to the point where it is actually repelling it. It really is an awesome site to see.





foxtrapper said:
So if you're beading up, you've got something on the paint.
Click to expand...



Not necessarily. As TOGWT pointed out in his post acrylic resins should casue water sheeting.





foxtrapper said:
The car sheeted water the first week or two, and then started beading up like conventional wax.

[/B]
Click to expand...



This surprises me greatly. I don't know what to make of it.



Bill.
 
TOGWT said:
Acrylic resins are hydrophobic (lacking an affinity for water) which causes ‘water sheeting’.



Carnauba Wax is inherently hydroscopic (readily taking up and retaining moisture,

when exposed to water, wax swells and closes its pores, which causes water ‘beading’
Click to expand...



I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. Carnauba wax (and the oils/silicones that come with it) is hydrophobic. Water beads on a waxed surface because of its cohesive properties and because of the fact that water molecules are not attracted to wax molecules (i.e. hydrophobic surface).



The real question is why one hydrophobic surface sheets water and the other beads water. This is something that has been discussed on Autopia for years and is certainly not as simple as saying one is hydroscopic and the other is hydrophobic.
 
Quote:



~One man’s opinion, observation~



I apologise, I thought that I'd said, that Acrylic resins are hydrophobic, and Carnauba Wax is inherently hydroscopic.



That’s what I should have said anyway.









~Hope this helps~





Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/



justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*
 
Thanks for all your thoughtful replies. :up



This is why I love Autopia.



When I started this thread, I was a little concerned that it might have sounded like a "whiny" thread bashing Klasse. Clearly that was not my intent. I truly wanted to hear other users thoughts relative to my concerns. I appreciate all the discussion and differing viewpoints that have been offered. They have given me lots of food for thought, and different ways to view the product. I definitely will not give up on Klasse easily.



Tony
 
I'm suprised at the loss of slickness with SG, because I used it on a black 740Li about 4 weeks ago and when I washed it last week, it still had real nice slickness to it. I washed it with QEW and it beaded up like crazy.



What part of the country do you live? Is it in an area with industrial fallout and acid rain? Both can have an effect on wax/sealant durability.
 
I'm very interested in the durability of products, so I'm keeping an eye on this thread! Great info to be found here.



Alex
 
I always find it interesting that people have such a WIDE range of experiences with SG. I use it on two of our vehicles, ones that are NOT pampered. I apply about 4-5 layers of SG, once a year, and MAYBE add one more after 4-6 months. For *ME*, it keeps beading, still feels slick, etc., etc. for a LONG, LONG time. When I redid the MPV after a *year*, it was STILL beading, not even to the sheeting stage yet. In fact, I only redid it because, well, letting it go more than a year between major details just went against my grain. But it really didn't need it. And this is with (*VERY* gentle) spot-claying with every wash!



One thing I've found with SG is that it's VERY detergent/soap resistant. So I mix up my Griot's Car Wash plenty strong and really CLEAN the finish with each wash. Maybe this is part of why my SG acts the way it does for so long :nixweiss



Oh, and after some washes, it SEEMS like the beading is gone, but it comes right back with the next rain or wash.
 
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