Klasse AIO durability

kenl

New member
I've got Klasse AIO with P21S on top on my car. I applied the AIO about 3 months ago and have been topping off with P21S one a month.



How long should I go before applying more more AIO?



Do I need to remove everything before starting again (I have P21S paintwork cleanser) or will applying the AIO on it's own be sufficient?



Thanks
 
AIO is a paint cleaner, so I was have thought that you could simply apply more AIO and then top again with P21S wax. No need to use the P21s paint cleaner as AIO would have cleaned the paint.



Cheers



Perm
 
try aio then both gepc and p21s wax it looks brill!

time consuming but you only really need to polish once every 5/6 months or when you think it needs repolishing.i polish and seal (natural/synthetic)once or twice a month(im a idiot)but i would only apply aio a couple of times a year the rest just use gepc and wax.
 
Stumpy said:
try aio then both gepc and p21s wax it looks brill!

time consuming but you only really need to polish once every 5/6 months or when you think it needs repolishing.i polish and seal (natural/synthetic)once or twice a month(im a idiot)but i would only apply aio a couple of times a year the rest just use gepc and wax.



I would have thought GEPC would remove the protection added by the AIO?
 
from what ive seen(in my opinion)on my car gepc only ads hiding quility it doesnt remove other polishes.to remove other polishes aio is good at that but of course thats a acryllic.

gepc is a ennancer(how ever you spell it)not a remover?
 
AIO is a chemical cleaner. Simply applying AIO again (not hard), will save you time, clean your finish of most contamanents (Ie, old wax like P21S), and also restore what little protection it provides. Hope that helps you.



Oh, AIO isn't layerale anyways, so there isn't much point in doing it again . Just put on anouther coat of P21S.
 
AIO and GEPC are redundant steps. They do the same job. Both are pre wax cleaners. The difference is AIO leaves some protection and GEPC doesn't. GEPC leaves some oils that AIO doesn't. AIO or GEPC when applied will strip your car of any wax or sealant you may have on it and create a nice base for your LSP. One thing I would keep in mind is that if you plan on using a sealant as your LSP than use AIO as your prep. GEPC is best used before a wax.
 
AIO is both a mechanical and chemical cleanser.



Just AIO again if you have been pleased with the results and just top with P21S.

Do a panel with GEPC and top with P21S and see if you like that combo better before doing the vehicle with your current combo.
 
blkZ28Conv said:
AIO is both a mechanical and chemical cleanser.



Just AIO again if you have been pleased with the results and just top with P21S.

Do a panel with GEPC and top with P21S and see if you like that combo better before doing the vehicle with your current combo.



:2thumbs: Agreed.
 
The layerability of AIO is dependent of the application. If you want a thorough cleaning apply it with a PC @ high speeds, slowly and patiently. If you apply it the second time by hand and barely touching the surface, the abrasives won't do anything and the product will lay on another protective coat. You'll feel after the second applicaton that the layers are definitely smoother and thicker. The first application will mostly clean & polish, the second will leave more protection. No need for GEPC.
 
Bence said:
The layerability of AIO is dependent of the application. If you want a thorough cleaning apply it with a PC @ high speeds, slowly and patiently. If you apply it the second time by hand and barely touching the surface, the abrasives won't do anything and the product will lay on another protective coat. You'll feel after the second applicaton that the layers are definitely smoother and thicker. The first application will mostly clean & polish, the second will leave more protection. No need for GEPC.





I seriously doubt this. The chemical cleaners don't need to be worked very much to clean. Also you must buff in the removal process and the abrasives and chemical cleaners will affect the layer underneath.



As for feeling a thicker layer come on now. :grinno:



The increased smoothness is for two reasons. 1) a cleaner surface from two applications instead of one 2) more complete coverage because of two applications.
 
Bence said:
Illusion, no need to doubt. The info comes from Mr. Reckling, the owner of Car-Lack.





Well I have heard speculation that Car-Lack makes Klasse but so far nothing confirmed. I even e mailed them and asked if they did and they said they didn't. Are you saying the owner of Car-Lack has told you personally that they make Klasse? If so this is certainly big news. Why is this the first you have mentioned this in Autopia?





If a second application of Klasse does not remove the first even if applied non aggressively than it isn't much of a cleaner than is it. In my experience it is an excellent cleaner so I do doubt it will layer.



Also that is a very impressive skill you have being able to feel a thicker layer considering that very sensitive measuring devices can't even detect film build from sealants.
 
I mentioned it earlier. Just do a search with Klasse and my name. There are only minor differences between the two products (CL68 & AIO; silicones, abrasive size).



I wrote a review about CL68 Nanotech (aka Jeff's Werkstatt Prime) earlier.
 
Illusion said:
Also that is a very impressive skill you have being able to feel a thicker layer considering that very sensitive measuring devices can't even detect film build from sealants.





Thanks!!! :D However, if you have worked with different waxes; heavy carnaubas, thin liquid sealants, etc., they have a different feel to them. Smoothness aside, some of them feels thicker, some thinner. And while we don't have appropriate words to describe them exactly...



...or do fine wines have REAL forest fruit (or whatever) aroma, or taste like honey melon?



No, but since we detailers are the sommeliers of car care, we must be colorful and descriptive.
 
Bence said:
Thanks!!! :D However, if you have worked with different waxes; heavy carnaubas, thin liquid sealants, etc., they have a different feel to them. Smoothness aside, some of them feels thicker, some thinner. And while we don't have appropriate words to describe them exactly...





Yes they do have different feels to them as you said. But if I apply a LSP and feel it than apply another layer on top no way can I feel that it is thicker than one layer.
 
Bence said:
I mentioned it earlier. Just do a search with Klasse and my name. There are only minor differences between the two products (CL68 & AIO; silicones, abrasive size).



Ok than are you saying that the owner told you they make Klasse? They denied that they make Klasse when I e mailed them.
 
They said that the formulation for Klasse is different than CL68. The US version has other silicones, and bigger abrasive size, but in effect the two products are 95% the same.



As with clay, there are two or three manufacturers of quality acrylic AIOs and sealants and they serve a wide spectrum of brands. I was told by CL that they consider one brand as a major competitor, and its acrylic, called R71. You won't find it as is, because it is only the name of the formula, and the other manufacturer sells it through numerous brand names. The two products (CL & R71) are very similar, qualitatively on par with each other, however the CL has better protective abilities. But even then the difference is minor.



There is a certain recognizable pattern in the product ranges though. Basically 1 AIO, 1 long life sealant, a plastic cleaner, a wheel cleaner and a shampoo. When you have bottles from the different brands, even the wording is absolutely the same. I was importing similar sealants from Germany in 1993 (they were called McTexcon Syntex, Polytex and Color Gloss with the other products I mentioned), and from that time I am aware of these kind of issues. The three products performed absolutely the same, but only Polytex was water soluble and dilutable. They have excellent shelf life, because I still have several bottles of Color Gloss and they are perfectly fine. That brand does not exist any more, but they sell the same products under the MacBrite name. The performance of these products virtually the same, and often indistinguishable for even for the most trained eye. So from a practical standpoint it is no matter what you will use. It can be SK Formula 1, Wellpro, B2000, Grojet, Klasse, Jeff's Werkstatt, Car-Lack, ShoKar, Number One, MacBrite or whatever. I conducted blind tests with painters & detailers, and I poured a bottle of Syntex in three different bottles saying them that by doing a thorough test, they have to find the best product out of the three. Needless to say, they have found the best one each and every time, they have found always a different bottle and they have seen differences...

R71 or Car-Lack? They are positioned so closely together, that the final results are basically the same. The significant difference can be the durability, in which Car-Lack has a definite lead. And they saying: "Unser Produkt Car-Lack Long Life entspricht dem Klasse Sealant Glaze, ist diesem jedoch qualitativ überlegen." (Our product CLLL is equal to Klasse Sealant Glaze, but qualitatively better.) And this sentence can be a bit shady in German, because the exact meaning depends on the emphasis. Do they emphasize the brand/product names?



Edited: more exact meaning of the word 'entsprechen'.
 
Been away from Autopia for a while, but I see that the nerdy little petty disagreements that plague this forum haven't changed at all. :D



kenl, to answer your original question, I would continue adding monthly coats of wax and just use a mild paint cleaner whenever you feel your paint finish could use some rejuvination or isn't shining quite as well as it should. This will depend on how well you maintain your car and how much exposure to the elements it gets. I usually use a paint cleanser on my garaged car about twice a year and clay about once a year.
 
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