KAIO + KSG + P21s + Black Paint = Haze after every wash. Help!

I dunno...it's be pretty slick it that worked, but I just don't know what the *real* problem is so I hesitate to offer any absolute solution :nixweiss.



I'd do it this way- I always try to use the same approach for problems: isolate the variables and consider them under controlled conditions. So..



I'd assume there's "too much stuff" on the surface that's not bonding properly. The wash may or may not be exacerbating the problem. After all, it appears after a wash. So I'd try a weaker mix of a different shampoo for starters. Wash the car and see if things are OK. If so, don't add more *anything*, just observe it for a few washes.



Similarly, I'd assume the Meg's QD simply isn't compatible with what you're doing. Or, at the very least it's a non-essential factor that can be eliminated without any big loss. So quit using it until you've sorted things out *without* its being part of the equation.



If changing shampoos doesn't solve it, then look to the LSPs for the problem.



IMO problem is *far* more likely to be wax-related than KSG-related. If you can get the P21S off the KSG then you can avoid redoing the whole job but that might not be practical...I'm really trying to avoid a redo of the whole job but maybe that'd be the ultimate solution. A few washes will probably start to remove the wax, but shouldn't hurt the SG.



Otherwise, if you want to actively work towards fixing things, doing as ScottWax suggested (redo with AIO, use SG) and letting the SG cure longer between coats would give you a new baseline.



If you redo it with AIO/SG just leave it at that. Add more SG if you like but I'd absolutely wait 24 hours (or more) between applications (I know, people say it's not necessary but I'm trying to limit variables here by sticking with what I know works from first-hand experience). I'd just add a coat of SG after each wash for a while. See if the problem recurs (I bet it won't).



Then, if you top it, and the problem *does* recur, you'll know it's the wax that's causing the trouble.



If you want to QD it, use a different QD, one that's *known* to work well with SG (I'd suggest FK 425). But adding anything like this will be adding another variable to the mix and I'd prefer to keep things as simple as possible until you find something that works OK.
 
rchrest said:
Thinking back.... I don't recall getting the haze after the last KSG application.. How does one use the isopropyl alcohol to strip wax? Never done this...
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Makes me even more certain that it's the wax that's causing the trouble.



The IPA is a solvent that just happens to dissolve wax/sealants/etc. (including the SG).
 
Having gone through this battle personally, I agree with Accumulator. I also think the diagnosis of "too much stuff on the surface" is correct. FWIW, I tried several different QDs with very little change in results. IIRC, I tried Pinnacle Crystal Mist, Meguiar's FD, Mother's, Diluted AIO, and something else that was supposed to work well with Synthetics...I forget which, now.



I came very close to fixing it (I thought) a couple times trying to remove just the wax, only to have the oils reappear. You may have more luck. I used Dawn to try and get rid of the wax but not the KSG (limited success, oils reappeared after 2nd wash). I also tried the various QDs listed above, buffed off with a foam finishing pad. Oils wouild reappear after one or two washes.



It was extremely bizarre how the oil would appear to be gone, then just reappear a couple days later with no additions/work done on the car.



Finally, it wasn't that bad doing the AIO and then a few more layers of KSG - I suspect that the AIO didn't completely remove all of the KSG, since I had som much on it. I did it over one weekend - Friday night did the AIO and one layer KSG, then another layer KSG on Saturday and the third on Sunday. I then let it go about a month without a wax topper, and all has been well since.



Keep us posted.



Andrew
 
Tons of good info here, guys. I'll try a couple different things and let you know what happens. First on the list is trying the DP waterless auto wash on one section (when I get it) and adding some p21s to another section to haze / dry / buff off. The rest of the car I will continue to wash with the p21s shampoo when it arrives as well. It is very puzzling how the oil can re-appear suddenly. If 75% of carnauba is gone after 2 months, it seems like we should be seeing less and less haze with every wash... especially if I wash more often. Thanks again!
 
Sounds like a plan. One other thing I tried that I forgot to mention was to put a light layer of KSG on and let it dry for several hours before removing it. My theory there was that if the oils were from the KSG not curing properly, the new layer would absorb the "bad" part and then removal would take it off. IIRC, it helped quite a bit.



blue skies,

Andrew
 
awahl63 said:
I think it happened because you didn't wait 24 hours between coats of SG
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On mine, I came to the conclusion that at some point, something in the KSG layers didn't cure correctly. FWIW, I never applied more than one layer at a time, and each should have had adequate curing time (always overnight, usually more than 24 hours). I'm not sure if I got sloppy and put on too thick a layer, or if I applied a layer after a QD had been used and hadn't worn off and that contaminated it, or what...but it was a 3 month PITA.



Final solution, after trying rewax, dawn wash, different QDs, buffing, etc, was a light once-over with AIO, and new applications of KSG. Haven't seen it since.



Although, every once in a while if I don't buff a QD off adequately, I see oils if the light hits it just right...and I panic. :furious: :aww:



Andrew
 
I forgot one thing: I used a 20:1 Water:KSG mixture for my QD, including to dust it off before applying the next coat.
 
rchrest- I only use QDs after an regular wash as I'm worried about marring, but that's another topic...



I'd skip doing that for a while, at least until you sort out whatever's going wrong. Same ol' same ol' you need to pare down the variables so you can figure it all out.



No mixing SG with water for me, but I know plenty of people do it.
 
Accumulator said:
rchrest- I only use QDs after an regular wash as I'm worried about marring, but that's another topic...



I'd skip doing that for a while, at least until you sort out whatever's going wrong. Same ol' same ol' you need to pare down the variables so you can figure it all out.



No mixing SG with water for me, but I know plenty of people do it.
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Good points. I should clarify... I would never re-apply sealant, etc after only a QD. The car was garaged (not driven) in-between coats and the KSG mixture was only to lightly remove the fine dust that might have landed on the paint while in the garage.



New products should arrive in a couple days. As I read these brainstorming ideas and form a gameplan, I like the idea of merely using KAIO, then carefully re-applying the LSP. I am curious how deep the AIO would cut... would it get all the KSG coats easily or maybe just the ones with defective bonding.... down to a solid layer of KSG. Perhaps a finishing pad would be best with this approach.



I sure hope my fiance doesn't see this exchange. She already wants me on psych meds because of my microfiber collection. :har:
 
rchrest said:
As I read these brainstorming ideas and form a gameplan, I like the idea of merely using KAIO, then carefully re-applying the LSP. I am curious how deep the AIO would cut... would it get all the KSG coats easily or maybe just the ones with defective bonding.... down to a solid layer of KSG. Perhaps a finishing pad would be best with this approach.
Click to expand...



First, I again echo the idea of not using a QD for the sake of eliminating variables.



My experience was that the AIO didn't remove all of the KSG layers. That said, it's hard to tell for sure - this is entirely a subjective analysis. Also, I did all my work by hand (all I had back then was a cheap-o buffer), using a foam applicaor pad and a MF to remove.



I'm assuming when you mention using a finishing pad, you also mean doing it by machine. If not, then ignore this part. I'd suggest doing the AIO by hand.



Andrew
 
Instead of throwings new products in the mix, why don't you just start all over. I know, I know, you don't want to, but it would be best. Strip it all off, then AIO, then KSG layers with proper cure time. Keep a close eye after the subsequent washes. I think that is the only way to know for sure.
 
rchrest said:
I've never heard of anyone doing AIO by hand.... do you always apply it this way or is your suggestion specific to my situation?
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Well, I just got my 7424 at the end of last season, so until pretty recently I had to do everything by hand. :sosad



But after playing with the PC, I've found I still prefer to apply (and usually remove, although a MF bonnet on the PC is pretty cool to remove Liquid Souveran) my last stage products by hand. I feel like I have more control over them, and waste less product.



I think more people use KAIO than have a PC, so I would think there is a pretty good sized group of people who use it by hand.



To answer the question, though, since you want as light a touch as possible with the KAIO, I think it would be easier to accomplish by hand. But I'm not an experienced PC user, so I could be way off base here. :waxing:



Andrew
 
hook said:
To answer the question, though, since you want as light a touch as possible with the KAIO, I think it would be easier to accomplish by hand. But I'm not an experienced PC user, so I could be way off base here. :waxing:



Andrew
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I thought this might be your reason... and it's a good one.





Here is my goal, depicted...... and first is the theoretical layering right now:



================

P21s 2

================

P21s 1

================

KSG 5

-----------------------------

KSG 4 ^Non-optimal bonding

-----------------------------

KSG 3 <--Poor bonding / quick cure time

-----------------------------

KSG 2

-----------------------------

KSG 1

*********************

AIO SEALANT remaining

_________________________________











Now here is the question... if I applied

AIO by hand without stripping wax via DAWN first,

Added 2 KSGs,

Added 2 P21s,

would it look like this (theoretical remember):



================

P21s 2

================

P21s 1

================

KSG 2

-----------------------------

KSG 1

-----------------------------

AIO SEALANT remaining

-----------------------------

KSG 2

-----------------------------

KSG 1

*********************

AIO SEALANT remaining

_________________________________





Million dollar question is.... how deep will KAIO cut by itself?



Can anyone follow this???
 
rchrest said:
...



Million dollar question is.... how deep will KAIO cut by itself?



Can anyone follow this???
Click to expand...

it doesnt have much cut, but it will clean off all the things on the paint right now due to it having cleaning chemicals in its makeup.
 
DARKSTI said:
it doesnt have much cut, but it will clean off all the things on the paint right now due to it having cleaning chemicals in its makeup.
Click to expand...



So are you saying it will completely clean off all of his coats of P21S and KSG?
 
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