Just shows that even pro's cant do it all!

D

Detailing NY

New member
Well i hate to say this but it looks like i finally met my match with a car. I was detailing a Lexus IS300. It is black to make things even worse.



The owner said that it is all scratched up. I looked around the car and found what seemed to be water spots and a few hundred minor scuff marks, from a automated car wash:eek:



I washed, clayed, compouned and the scratches were all gone but these little water spots were all over the hood, roof & trunk.



I clayed again using clay magic red bar and they still would not come out. I used 3m perfect III compound and a rotary and they still would not come out.



The customer was watching me the entire time and could not understand why i could not get this spots out of the paint. My next step was to wet sand this hood, but i really did not want to and the owner did not have time to wait for me to do this.



When the owners friend came to see the car, he told his the owner of the car out loud "oh, look he cant get the spots out either" It seems that they took this to another local detailer as well and they could not get the spots out.

But i was told i did a better job and the car looked alot deeper!



Does anyone have any idea what the hell these spots could be? I have never seen this before and i have been detailing for around 11 years. My guess is that these marks are in the clear coat and will not come out unless i wetsand, and who knows if that will work.

I told him to go back to the dealer and have them check it out. and of course the dealer will say a detailer did this, but he cant say i did it as i had him sign a vehicle check in report showing all the water spots and scuff marks on the veh to cover my @$$.

:nixweiss
 
The problem is you don't know what caused these spots and it appears that the owner is unaware of what caused them. They might not be ordinary water spots or they may have etched so badly nothing could un-do the damage.



They could be some residue from a harsh chemical that inadvertently got on the paint.



Sounds like wet sanding is the next option or a new paint job.



What year Lexus is it??
 
RIC said:
The problem is you don't know what caused these spots and it appears that the owner is unaware of what caused them. They might not be ordinary water spots or they may have etched so badly nothing could un-do the damage.



They could be some residue from a harsh chemical that inadvertently got on the paint.



Sounds like wet sanding is the next option or a new paint job.



What year Lexus is it??
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Well the IS300s first came to the US in the summer of 2000 as a 2001 model. So they haven't been out all that long.
 
My wife's '97 Catera has the same water spot problem. I've tried quite a few products on them for the last 2 years and have given up. I bought a 10x photographer's loupe to get a closer look. The edges of some of the worse spots have actually pitted the clear coat. You have to be at the right angle and the lighting has to be just right to see them. I went by an automotive paint supply shop to see if they had any suggestions for a fix and wet sanding was their only solution.:nono



Turns out middle TN has an acid rain problem from the Nissan plant which is only 10 miles away. I never gave acid rain much thought since this plant is only about 20 years old. I figured newer manufacturing facilities would have had a ton of environmental controls placed on it to keep the air clean. I guess jobs won out over the environment.
 
NYD,



It sounds like the problem is too deep for correction. Acids from Bird Bombs or etching from water spots get very bad when exposed to oxygen and water. Since this car is black it likely got very hot forcing the problem very deep into the film build. I have seen this type of thing before, a bird bomb etched so deep that you would literally have to removed the entire film buid of clear to remove it, they can get that deep. When they are that far into the film build there really is not much you can do with it.



Tell the customer the problem is deeper than .3 mil into the film. Thus the only option, without causing premature clear failure, is refinishing.
 
I'd have to agree with Showroom. With everything you have done, it sounds like the water spots have etched the paint too deeply to be removed. It could be he works at a plant that has some fallout issues or he has been parking it next to his lawn sprinklers since it was new (and it could be up to 2 years old), and the hard water combined with drying in the direct sun on a black car has simply ruined his paint beyond the normal detailing fixes.



Are you sure the problem is in the clear coat and not in the base coat? I detailed a black Cadillac DTS a few years ago and the base coat was deteriorating under the clear coat-almost looked like bleach spots. Obviously, there was no way for me to remove them and she ended up getting the dealer to repaint the car since it was only 6 months old.
 
I have these same marks, but only on my hood. I've clayed, used 3M Fine Cut twice, 3M SMR many times, AOI, vinegar, etc and I haven't been able to get them out. They're only noticable from certain angles and correct lighting though, so I'm ok.
 
HellrotCi said:


Turns out middle TN has an acid rain problem from the Nissan plant which is only 10 miles away.
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You must live in Murfreesboro (or as we called it in college, Murfreesboreme)! I lived in M'boro / Nashville for around 8 years.



Do you ever go to Buster's on Broad Street? They have the best hamburgers in the ENTIRE WORLD. God I miss that place!

:up
 
I too have had similar problems with a 2001 Civic that has had the clear coat etched. It has to be some sort of chemical that got airborne and was rained onto the car. I have never seen anything like it, but it is sure that I will see it for some time..... I have tried everything short of wet sanding to get those darn things out! :mad:



Jeff
 
Hey NY, I wouldnt wet sand that new of a lexxus, unless I had no other option. Has the person contacted the dealer? Other lexxus owners? Maybe their is a recall?(doubtful). Sometimes, people think we can fix any problem with a high speed and a water hose, especially if someone they know or trust, says Oh , That will buff out! Jason
 
My sister had this problem with her used 92 Civic. Someone hit the car and totaled it! No problems with waterspots now! :D
 
Has none of the "professional" detailers on this forum actually never encountered acid rain etching before? I mean really, anyone with an ounce of training should be able to diagnose this problem. Alas, most cases are far too deep into the film build as earlier stated by Showroom and thus not fixable. Check out this link to see a good example of acid rain damage. http://www.autoint.com/black panel.htm
 
ShineShop said:
Has none of the "professional" detailers on this forum actually never encountered acid rain etching before? I mean really, anyone with an ounce of training should be able to diagnose this problem. Alas, most cases are far too deep into the film build as earlier stated by Showroom and thus not fixable. Check out this link to see a good example of acid rain damage. http://www.autoint.com/black panel.htm
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Sorry, but no acid rain in the Dallas area. I've encountered a lot of cars with hard water spots from sprinklers (usually very easy to correct), but haven't run across anything with acid rain damage.



I did detail a black Tahoe that a guy bought at an auto auction for his son, and it had overspray under the clear coat! Damnedest thing I've seen yet as far as body shop screw ups go. The entire roof of the truck was also caked in overspray. I told him it would need to be wet sanded to be removed (not even the Clay Magic Red would budge it) and he told me not to worry, his son would probably wreck it in a few months anyway. :nixweiss
 
I'm no professional detailer but it sounds like some REAL bad water spots. This 740iL I just detailed (black as well) had big blotches of waterspots on the hood, roof, and trunklid. I tried for hours to get these out but nothing would work. I didn't go as far as wet sanding because I have no experience with it and didn't want to try it out on such a nice car. The spots I encountered on the car where definately water spots of some kind (not bird droppings) and I think it had to be from an automatic car wash that didn't get the water off completely because the spots were a bit bigger than a quarter in size (bigger than any rain drop I've seen).
 
ShineShop said:
Has none of the "professional" detailers on this forum actually never encountered acid rain etching before? I mean really, anyone with an ounce of training should be able to diagnose this problem. Alas, most cases are far too deep into the film build as earlier stated by Showroom and thus not fixable. Check out this link to see a good example of acid rain damage. http://www.autoint.com/black panel.htm
Click to expand...



Well stated.



Acid rain is a massive problem in the NE area of the US. Think about it geographically and compare that to prevailing weather patterns and you'll get the point.



People that live/work near factories, airports, mills, quarries, or most any industrial area are going to suffer from acid rain. It's a topic that used to get a ton of play with environmentalists during the 80's.



Color sanding might remove them but for most of us it's a problem we have to live with. My car has several small acid rain spots on the trunk from the months it sat on a dealer's lot prior to my purchasing it. Not much I can do so I live with it.



All it takes is one dousing with acidic rain and the damage is done. Lots and lots of brand new cars are damaged while sitting on dealer lots. Park the car next to an airport (esp. under flight patterns) and you are guaranteed a ruined paint job.
 
bretfraz said:


All it takes is one dousing with acidic rain and the damage is done. Lots and lots of brand new cars are damaged while sitting on dealer lots.
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This is so true! The truck that we detailed yesterday only had 1000 miles on it, and was bought in June, and the hood and roof were already damaged with acid rain spots. There were even tiny spots on the side of the truck! :(
 
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