Just giving them what they pay for?

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dfoxengr

New member
So I'd like to do a few cars here and there for some extra money but I am having trouble with pricing.



Basically I am wondering how to charge enough but also feel like the customer is satisfied. For example, a basic wash and wax plus interior vacuum and wipedown would be $100-120, which is a lot of money for someone to spend on their DD, and I am pretty meticulous so it would take me maybe 4-5 hours. Now for that amount of money, are they going to expect perfection, even though we know it's not really possible for that price point?



How do you meet their needs, not overdo the car (which wastes your time and money), make them happy and you money all at the same time? How do you balance it? How do you set the expectations properly at the beginning?



Back to expectations, what if you don't get all the road tar off the side, or miss a bug on the grill, leave some brake dust on a wheel spoke, or something like that? Are these things expected and understood by customers?
 
I've never felt bad about charging enough so I don't have to shovel out bird cages.



If you charge a low price, people who don't care about their cars - until you clean them - will use you. And I meant to say use you. In my experience, low pricing gets you both the worst cars and the worst/pickiest and unrealistic clients. "What do you mean you can't get a ketchup stain off my headliner? I thought you were a professional." Punctuated with burp if you're lucky, a fart if you're not.



People who care enough about their cars to pay top dollar for detailing don't treat their cars like rolling picnic grounds and smoke houses. They take care of their cars and get them detailed to keep them in top shape. Then, you have to be worth the money. If you are, they might tell their friends, if you're not, they'll tell random strangers and their friends. Good luck.



Robert
 
WhyteWizard said:
I've never felt bad about charging enough so I don't have to shovel out bird cages.



If you charge a low price, people who don't care about their cars - until you clean them - will use you. And I meant to say use you. In my experience, low pricing gets you both the worst cars and the worst/pickiest and unrealistic clients. "What do you mean you can't get a ketchup stain off my headliner? I thought you were a professional." Punctuated with burp if you're lucky, a fart if you're not.



People who care enough about their cars to pay top dollar for detailing don't treat their cars like rolling picnic grounds and smoke houses. They take care of their cars and get them detailed to keep them in top shape. Then, you have to be worth the money. If you are, they might tell their friends, if you're not, they'll tell random strangers and their friends. Good luck.



Robert
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Post of the year!
 
It takes some experience to learn how to read your customers. I ask a lot of questions of new customers so that I can fully understand exactly what their expectations are. Is the car going to be sold? How is it maintained? Etc. I will sometimes ask if they have a budget in mind as well if they are talking like they expect perfection. This gives me an opportunity to present options and establish realistic expectations that stay within that budget; I will often give them an option that is about 1/2 their budget but clearly doesn't meet all their expectations and an option that comes close to their max. If their maximum just isn't enough to do everything they want I break it down and help them prioritize by focusing on the needs and perhaps glossing over some items.



The starting condition of a vehicle can make a huge difference as well. As Robert pointed out the people who care for their cars will have higher expectations but the work will be more detail oriented rather than a Haz-mat clean-up.



I feel like I may have asked before, but where in NC are you?
 
I have to agree with lower prices attracting the neglected vehicles. I've run specials in the past and that's when the trashed cars come in. More than 90% of the time at full retail price, the cars are obviously very well taken care of and are a pleasure to detail. But when the price drops, that's when the stuff starts rolling in that makes you want to cringe.
 
This topic could be discussed for hours in person.



A few things about being in business and selling to your customer:



Most customers will see you as the authority and will ask what they "need". I tell my clients that I am a luxury service and not a doctor. You need food, you don't need your leather cleaned. But I am happy to inform them of what I believe they will see a real value in having done(after spending time talking with them about the car and maintaining it). With that said....only suggest what they will see a return on their dollar for. In other words, don't be a d-bag and suggest someone have a wheel-off suspension detail when they just got a new car and they are eager to spend money wherever you suggest. They will be happy at first and then they will be bitter weeks down the road when they reflect back on it. In short, treat them like a friend and do them right by what you suggest. I like the money I make on any service and it's nice doing opti-coat/guard, but I am not going to suggest it unless their car and them are good candidates for the service.



You need to take pride in your work and charge accordingly. If you cut corners in how you price a job you will eventually cut corners in how you do the work. That's not to say you will never mistakenly miss something and you will only be perfect. But if you take pride in your work it will reflect in the overall quality. I charge $125 for an exterior wash and wax. I know that I will end up spending 30+ minutes on the wheels/tires/wheel wells and I am cool with it because I charge to do a good job. I expect a wash and wax to take 2'ish hours. My clients never complain about the prices. If someone is not yet a client and they have no sense of the quality that I offer, they will look at me madly. But after a few years, it's mostly folks who have seen my work online that are calling me and they don't sweat it because they know what I strive for. This is important to understand....it takes time to build that rapport. When I started, I charged $325 for a level 2. I now charge $1000+. I do a better job now and it's totally worth that. But if I believed that I could tag $1000+ jobs when first starting I would have quit a poor man.



Communicate with your customer what they are paying for. If you are not good at articulating yourself, this will be difficult. It's rare that a new potential client calls me and they do not schedule an appointment on the spot. This is why. Most people want quality and will pay for it. But you need to reinforce that you are the quality they are looking for(very important: don't do this by bad mouthing your competition. For example, I have only said very good things about Mike and mirror and Brian at Peachstate to even my clients. I think a lot of both of them and will not change who I am because I want a dollar). If you can not articulate that to them, they will call me next and will feel that way about me instead and schedule your appointment with me and probably pay more. Not because I am cheaper, but because when I speak with a client they will know without a doubt that I will give them what they want. It's not about tricking anyone. It's about making it clear that you want to find what they want(not what you want for them) and will deliver once you know.



I know that was a bit to read but I believe that you will find better success if you are already offering a high quality service but lack those few key components.
 
Position yourself in the market and stick to your guns. Charge what you feel is justifiable and go as far as you are willing to go. It's a matter of competition, market value, perception and execution. A client may pay you what you ask, thank you for the work and tell you how good of a job you did...then never call you again. The majority of unsatisfied customers don't say anything, so you'll never really know. So, if it's not worth it to you don't try to make it worth it to them.



Pointing out something specific you said though, in my opinion, if you're charging $100-120 for anything, I would assume things like road tar, brake dust and bug guts are always removed. It's the exact reason why I don't wash any car I haven't fully detailed. I charge them to get the car into my standards, then require bi-weekly washes at a minimum or I won't agree to wash it. If they skip a wash, I charge extra for the next one. They are making my job harder and last longer, so they have to pay for it. Your good customers understand this and will pay the added cost. The ones that don't, you don't need.



I just booked another bi-weekly wash client and told him I'd have to charge an extra $10 per wash because of the distance. He didn't flinch and agreed like I never even said that.



In any business, you'll find the picky, the willing and the careless. You'll never have a perfect business, you'll upset someone at some time and most people that didn't value your service will never let you know anyway.
 
As mentioned it is best just to set your prices and stick to your guns. I have clients who drive 200 to 400k cars as daily driver's and look as bad as minivans when i get them. Granted their collectible Classics are well-kept but the newer cars are the flavor of the month and can be replaced at anytime. They only want a major detail on them right before resale.



Just saying the high-end isn't always the prettiest cars clean wise.
 
Thank you for the tips, keep them coming.



Another question, how do you deal with a scenario like this?

I think I can get a stain out and tell them that. I work on it for half an hour and its mostly gone...how does this work?
 
dfoxengr said:
Thank you for the tips, keep them coming.



Another question, how do you deal with a scenario like this?

I think I can get a stain out and tell them that. I work on it for half an hour and its mostly gone...how does this work?
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You just have to frame the expectations they have for the outcome. I always ask them first if they know what caused the stain, and then ask how long it has been there. The longer the stain has been there, and depending on what caused it, determines how well it will come out of the material (and this will help you determine what approach to take in removing it). If we're talking a fresh coffee stain, it shouldn't be a big deal to remove. If on the other hand we're talking about an ink stain that has been there for a month or more, you might not be able to completely remove it.



It might also be a good idea to simply say "I'll remove as much of it as possible; if there are any remaining signs of the stain the area affected may need to be re-dyed." That's how I generally approach such situations when a customer asks.
 
To add to Charlie's post; I often give the customer the comparison of a stain in their carpet or furniture at home and explain that the environment of a car (greenhouse effect baking in the stain) can make it even more difficult to remove. I also explain that there are often risks involved in getting too aggressive in attempting to remove stains. For my regular customers I tell them to call me immediately if they have any spill of significance. For them it provides the best chance of total removal. On my end it usually makes it much easier to deal with while it is fresh.
 
There is something to be said about volume, but you have to be prepared for it.



If you are in the growth stage of your business, and want to get new business in, take what comes your way. There is no shame in cleaning very dirt cars, it is just harder work, takes a lot longer, and you get paid less for it.



If you are willing to accept that, go for it. If not, keep your price points high, and focus on high end clientele.



I guess the real question is what direction do you have for YOUR business, and what is going to work on YOUR market.
 
dfoxengr said:
I think I can get a stain out and tell them that. I work on it for half an hour and its mostly gone...how does this work?
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Experience, TOGWT articles and being up front and logical with them. People either don't know what detailers can do, or they think they can fix everything. I don't like doing nasty interiors because without ripping out the carpet and removing trim/panels, you can't clean everything. I always tell them that not every stain comes out, not every smell will disappear and I'm not a miracle worker. I always tell them, it's like asking a construction person to paint the walls and remove the mold behind the drywall, without removing the drywall. It's impossible.



C. Charles Hahn said:
"I'll remove as much of it as possible; if there are any remaining signs of the stain the area affected may need to be re-dyed."
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Perfect.



IHA Mark said:
If you are in the growth stage of your business, and want to get new business in, take what comes your way. There is no shame in cleaning very dirt cars, it is just harder work, takes a lot longer, and you get paid less for it.
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Indeed. I take a lot of family, friend and co-worker work that doesn't pay, but it always adds great portfolio 50/50 shots and before/after photos. The only reason I take them is I usually get a referral. I did my girlfriends cousin's BMW for super cheap, but it turned into 2 more details from her co-workers that saw my work. 2 people that never thought about paying a detailer, or where to even begin looking for one.





What you really need is experience. I took on a lot of business I would charge so much more for now, because it gave me experience. I talk to customers better, I sell services better, I know more about what I can and can't do and I know whether or not I will or won't do something for the amount of $ they want to pay me.
 
start off lower to build your bank account for the business

increase as business goes up (supply and demand for your time)

get really good at polishing and refining a process to speed things up

decide if you want to continue with the volume work, or jump up into the paint correction game, or both

hire help to make your life easier and make more in the end! 2 cars @125 each while paying $50 out to your help is better and will be done sooner than 1 car @ $175...plus you will have two people spreading word for you

if you want to get into the paint correction game, you better have your game tight! Its not for everyone, and even fewer see that! Dont be the hack guy saying "holograms are a factor on black paint, cant do anything about it"
 
toyotaguy said:
start off lower to build your bank account for the business

increase as business goes up (supply and demand for your time)

get really good at polishing and refining a process to speed things up

decide if you want to continue with the volume work, or jump up into the paint correction game, or both

hire help to make your life easier and make more in the end! 2 cars @125 each while paying $50 out to your help is better and will be done sooner than 1 car @ $175...plus you will have two people spreading word for you

if you want to get into the paint correction game, you better have your game tight! Its not for everyone, and even fewer see that! Dont be the hack guy saying "holograms are a factor on black paint, cant do anything about it"
Click to expand...





Some good points there, but I would caution about starting with low prices with the intent to raise them. Customers who you gain by low prices will drop away or be unhappy when you raise your prices significantly so you potentially end up starting all over again in building a client base at the higher prices.



Choose a price point that you want to operate at, then perhaps start by charging 10%-15% less than that. A later raise of that amount won't impact your business as bad as starting at $75 then having to jump to $125-$150 to be profitable. A better practice is to offer a "discount" early on to build business, but make sure those customer understand what the "regular" price would be and why they are getting the discount. Many may not have you back, but it still gets your name out there. When they do have you back you don't have to worry about them having sticker shock. Don't succumb to pressure to offer the deal every time. I tend to give discounts based upon the number of referrals a customer sends me. Much cheaper and more efficient than any other advertising I can pay for.
 
I base all my prices on a starting point to give the customer an idea of what the minimum would be. After looking over the car I discuss with them how they intend to care for the car after the detail. No sense talking someone into a full correction if they will let the dealer or the local tunnel wash take care of it. Are they intending to keep the car a long time? Probably a good customer to upsell to Opti-Coat. I do a wide variety of services from basic washes (just a few a week now) to full on corrections and everything in between. Most of what I do are basic full details, full interior cleaning/protection, wash, clay, 1 DA polishing step and wax or sealant. For the vast majority of people, that gets them a clean, shiny, well protected car and that's what they want. And they tend to be repeat customers so even though 1 step doesn't always remove every last swirl or defect, over time their finish continues to improve. Plus, at some point, a few will decide to take the details to the next level.



Like the others have said, the worst thing you can do is position yourself as a low priced or budget detailer. Unless you really like detailing nasty minivans for people who have zero loyalty to anything but low prices.
 
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