Joining an association

[Ben@3D]

The larger one is 17 x 62.

The smaller is 23 x 33.



Will be available really soon!

 

[Bill D]

I'll go measure my garage wall space right now!

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Gotta love how Bud is more than happy to respond to/kiss up to people who agree with him, but when questioned or asked for additional justification of his own comments he resorts to insults. What a lovely way to operate :fish:



Oh well. Looking forward to the Autopia banners! :nerd:

 

[Bill D]

Charlie, if that comment refers to my post earlier, my intent was not to "kiss Bud's @ss". I don't even make a living detailing cars and I could easily care less about associations and certifications but I thought I'd share what I was thinking when I read the thread. Forgive me for intruding. :rolleyes1:

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Charlie, if that comment refers to my post earlier, my intent was not to "kiss Bud's @ss". I don't even make a living detailing cars and I could easily care less about associations and certifications but I thought I'd share what I was thinking when I read the thread. Forgive me for intruding. :rolleyes1:

Sorry Bill, didn't mean any offense toward you or Michael M, I'm just exceedingly annoyed at Bud's conduct and frankly I am hoping eventually he'll either apologize for his behavior or man up and justify his comments.

 

[Bill D]

No problem, Charlie. FWIW, I am sincere about what I posted. I support you guys as pros and I enjoy creative thinking.



I think an association and certification is a good idea, at the very least in concept. It certainly isn't a mandatory thing or anything like that but in all seriousness, even if this doesn't come to fruition, what do you guys think about some type of colleagueship between Autopia and an organization like IDA?

 

[Junebug]

I think Scott nailed it. And I believe Autopia will be working more toward that goal for the guys/gals that detail for a living.



Tomorrow I try out a new product and thanks to Barry, I have a pretty good idea how it works and what to do!

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I would totally welcome a partnership between Autopia and the IDA if it were truly a mutually beneficial arrangement.



The main issue I personally have with the IDA's current situation is that they don't appear to have very much of value established yet, and I can't help but feel like in the meantime until they *do* get established, somebody is profiting from the dues paid in by members -- and an industry organization should not be a for-profit venture. It was already mentioned that the "board members" are not compensated for their expenses so the question must be raised: where is the money going and what is it used for?



Autopia is a long-established group with plenty of support from enthusiasts and some of the industry's top professionals. If we the members felt strongly that a certification program of some sort would be a beneficial tool we could easily collaborate on such a project without having to pay in dues to make the preliminary planning happen. Once a program framework has been established, THEN would be the time to start charging in order to support marketing efforts, testing material distribution, compliance verifications, etc.



That said, I just don't think there's enough support for a certification program in the industry at large to make it a worthwhile effort in the long run. So, without that piece it just gets back to the same debate we started with: what is an industry association that charges dues going to offer that Autopia (and/or any number of other established communities) doesn't offer already?

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Tomorrow I try out a new product and thanks to Barry, I have a pretty good idea how it works and what to do!

Hey, me too! At least I assume you're talking about the new version of UNO, anyway....

 

[David Fermani]

this thread needs locked and buda needs banned. there is nothing written on the IDA's 'benefits' page that is any different than being a FREE member here or elsewhere.

That's rediculous.





I find the IDA interesting to say the least and hope that it can prove to be a source for viabilty for our industry. I'm currently na I-CAR Platinum member and am actually considering joining the IDA too. I strongly feel I-CAR could benefit from consulting with the IDA on their detailing and refinishing classes. I personally am not too intersted in what they can do for me per se, but how I can help the industry by becoming a member. I'd love to assist them with the standardization of guidelines and processes to advance our industry. I don't have nearly 7000 posts here just for self glorification, but as many already know I like helping people. I think being part of a professional association that has the potential to reach out an industry I'm passionate about is pretty exciting. We'll see how things go in the future.

 

[Junebug]

Yep Charlie, you were right and WOW, that new UNO is really awesome. I did a big old Crown Vic that gets the rain wash if its lucky. The paint was the nastiest I've seen since the diesel covered pickup truck I did a while back.



My daughter said that I proved that you CAN polish a turd, she helped with the interior. Bonus, got an acre of more land after cleaning the carpet.



Back on the IDA thing, I'm sticking with Autopia and working with the folks here, I don't have the time nor desire to get involved with another deal now. My schedule is full, and thanks to UNO, I'm working much smarter not harder. But, as soon as you get better and faster - customers come out of the woods with cars that would get rejected by the Tunnel of Swirls owners.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Yep Charlie, you were right and WOW, that new UNO is really awesome. I did a big old Crown Vic that gets the rain wash if its lucky. The paint was the nastiest I've seen since the diesel covered pickup truck I did a while back.

Nice! I'll be putting together as much of a thread as I can in a bit with my thoughts on UNO, I used it on a Jet Black BMW E92 (335i xDrive Coupe) today and I too was impressed with the results once I got a technique dialed in.

 

[WAS]

This thread has become quite interesting. There was mention earlier (I think by Scott) about certification, and how it means nothing if it isn't constantly enforced. While I absolutely agree with that, how often is ASE enforced ? How often are the professional accountants reviewed after they take their exam ? I think you will find this in just about every single mass certification body that's out there. Passing the bar exam doesn't prove you're a good lawyer, does it ? Passing a hair stylist licensing test doesn't prove that you can cut hair perfectly, does it ? Certification in any industry (or membership in a professional association) only goes so far. It helps the average customer who knows nothing about YOUR particular business, they see an association affiliation or certification and they feel that they can trust you a bit more (it's a perception, a lie that the customer tells themselves to feel better about their own decision to do business with you if they don't know you). However, I fully agree that your own personal reputation does trump any type of certification or association affiliation. If word of mouth about your business is poor, then no piece of paper is going to help you.



There's also something missing from this thread that I think is important for everyone to know. I've done some research, and it appears that Bud Abraham was a previous Executive Director of the IDA. He hasn't lied per say, since he states the he currently is not on their board of directors or affiliated with the executive, but he does fail to tell us that he once was the Executive Director. I personally don't care, but I question why that fact was hidden from all of us ?

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Certification in any industry (or membership in a professional association) only goes so far. It helps the average customer who knows nothing about YOUR particular business, they see an association affiliation or certification and they feel that they can trust you a bit more (it's a perception, a lie that the customer tells themselves to feel better about their own decision to do business with you if they don't know you).

You do have a good point, and as someone who also has some background in IT (and I hold several IT certifications) I can totally agree with where that's coming from. However in some ways I can see looking at it as a "lie the customer tells themselves" as being a bad thing as well. I'd rather prove to customers they can trust me so they KNOW what they're getting rather than force them to lie to themselves and leave some room for second guessing.

There's also something missing from this thread that I think is important for everyone to know. I've done some research, and it appears that Bud Abraham was a previous Executive Director of the IDA. He hasn't lied per say, since he states the he currently is not on their board of directors or affiliated with the executive, but he does fail to tell us that he once was the Executive Director. I personally don't care, but I question why that fact was hidden from all of us ?

Which just makes it even more interesting that he has been unable or unwilling to answer any questions.

 

[WAS]

You do have a good point, and as someone who also has some background in IT (and I hold several IT certifications) I can totally agree with where that's coming from. However in some ways I can see looking at it as a "lie the customer tells themselves" as being a bad thing as well. I'd rather prove to customers they can trust me so they KNOW what they're getting rather than force them to lie to themselves and leave some room for second guessing.







Which just makes it even more interesting that he has been unable or unwilling to answer any questions.

lol, I'm actually a telecoms professional myself, so I know what you mean. I do agree that word of mouth and being able to "prove" to customers why you're a reputable shop is worth far more than any piece of paper.



And yes, I am curious why the very specific statements about how Bud is not affiliated with the executive at all, yet doesn't make one mention that he was once the ED. Not trying to bash anyone here by any means, but was there a reason for keeping that quiet ?

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

And yes, I am curious why the very specific statements about how Bud is not affiliated with the executive at all, yet doesn't make one mention that he was once the ED. Not trying to bash anyone here by any means, but was there a reason for keeping that quiet ?

Indeed....

If I were the executive director of the IDA or even the president I could sight many of the membership benefits that an operator could obtain from joining, but I am not.

 

[buda]

Thanks for your post and excellent points.



Those arguing against certification are fearful of certification is what I have been able to determine. Over the years when this subject is brought up there are always a few as we have had here that say, basically the same thing. The same arguments.



It seems to me if you don't want to be certified don't be. Not a problem. If you see no value in joining the IDA then don't.



It has been nearly two years since I resigned as the ED of the IDA. We got it going and then it was time for a professional ED to take over so no one could say there was a conflict of interests.



There was no intent in to hide this but if you review the posts there was nothing stated that would require me to mention that I was a previous ED. And the direction the posts were taking would have just fueled the argument against the IDA and certification saying I had a vested interest.



The fact is that I am nothing more than a "supplier" member of the IDA and have little or no voice in what it does as a group.



I believed strongly that the detail industry needed/needs an association and that is why even though I am not involved I passionately support it.

 

[WAS]

It has been nearly two years since I resigned as the ED of the IDA. We got it going and then it was time for a professional ED to take over so no one could say there was a conflict of interests.



There was no intent in to hide this but if you review the posts there was nothing stated that would require me to mention that I was a previous ED. And the direction the posts were taking would have just fueled the argument against the IDA and certification saying I had a vested interest.



The fact is that I am nothing more than a "supplier" member of the IDA and have little or no voice in what it does as a group.

I don't question the reasoning behind your resigning as ED. I can also understand your point of view regarding it "fueling the argument". However, I'm sure you also see our point of view, that being because you didn't mention it, you were trying to conceal it.



And even if you did have a vested interest in certification, so ? If you believe THAT strongly in it (which it appears that you do), then you SHOULD have a vested interest in it, that shows some personal commitment.

 

[buda]

Appreciate your comments and understand your position. All I can say was there was no intent to hide anything.



So let me tell everyone should they do some further research you will find I was one of the founding members of the Professional Detail Association and it's first ED from 1989 to 1992, for the same reason I served the IDA's ED. And I resigned for the same reasons.



The PDA was very successful with over 500 members. The mistake that was made was merging with the Carwash association which simply absorbed the PDA and eliminated every thing the PDA accomplished and made dues too expensive for detailers



And, by the way my passion is for a detail industry association. Not necessarily fo certification. Certification is but one thing an association can do, not what an

association is.



It is the members who determine what an association does and members asked for an IDA CERTIFICATION

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

The PDA was very successful with over 500 members.

How many detailers are there in the country? Or the world?



500 members doesn't really sound "very successful" to me.



Anyone know how many members Autopia has?

The mistake that was made was merging with the Carwash association which simply absorbed the PDA and eliminated every thing the PDA accomplished and made dues too expensive for detailers

What did the PDA accomplish?