I've think I've lost all faith in detailing...

[imported_jgv]

Man, if Anthony offered me a fix, I believe, based on how helpful he's been in the past and how great his projects always look, I would be more inclined to give it a shot. What he said makes pretty good sense to me, in regards to the product breaking down, but the pad continuing to cut.



But then, that's just me.

Same here



And I'm also on the opinion that a LC yellow pads will mar the surface with the PC.



But then, that's just me

 

[neoprufrok]

Neo,



I would move down the aggressive ladder both in pad and product as your paint is obviously soft and susceptible to marring perhaps more easily than other paint finishes. If I were doing your finish I would start out with a polishing pad and Menzerna Final Polish. If the results were not to my desire I would then stay with the pad choice but move up to Light Cut, DACP or IP and then finish that off with FP and a finishing pad.



A winning finish is not made in the quantity of steps but rather the quality of those steps. It is easy to get caught up in detailing overkill which then leads to frustration so keep it simple:xyxthumbs I am sure if you take the advice given to you so far from others your problem will be solved in short time.





SamIam,



Thank you sir for those kind words



Adios,

Anthony

Thanks for your advice Anthony. As you can probably understand, my weekends have been fairly full as it is. Before moving further, I'd just like a second opinion from someone who can see my finish. It's hard to describe and maybe I'm not describing it well. But I feel that someobdy with more experience than me (preferably an Autopian) should look at it before I go and buy more things to try to fix this issue.



Right now, I'm stuck between Menzerna and 1Z so I'm not sure which would be best.

 

[jasonatv22]

I'd just like a second opinion from someone who can see my finish.

:hm



I think there are about 8 people agreeing to use a less harsh pad and less harsh compound.



At the rate you're going, you'll be complaining about clearcoat failure by June.



I don't PC, but, dude, you're eating your car.

 

[Accumulator]

What Neo's after is a first-hand second opinion based on actual observation. He's been detailing forever and when HE'S stuck, it's really something. And Audi clear can stand a LOT of polishing, that's probably not gonna be a problem here.



Anthony- Actually, his paint is pretty hard, it's the same Audi clear that I'm always griping about. I must say it's got ME scratching my head...I think the problem is that once it gets marred, getting the marring out without causing a NEW problem is tricky without a rotary.



I think that now that the original marring/holograms have been sorta replaced by the marring from his pads/products, yeah, you're right, he needs to move down the ladder to milder approaches, spending more time than usual- really working the product to make sure it's not abrasive-breakdown related. Sounds like a job for a Cyclo, huh Like you, I'd try working the paint for a pretty long time with a mild polish and a polishing pad. Much as I love the 1Z stuff, this might be a good time for the FP.

 

[raymond_ho2002]

I had initially written this in a PM to neoprufrok, but I thought it'd be good to share with everyone else:



The holograms correspond in your buffer travel pattern? you're sure then, that it comes from PC'ing..



Another idea is that when you use DACP, you use strictly up and down motions on a panel, and remove the residue in that same pattern.. and when you apply and remove PI-III, you use strictly horizontal motions. when you apply gepc, apply and remove only in a diagonal line. The next time you take your car out in the sun, the pattern of the hologramming should reveal what step you're having a problem with.

 

[imported_memnuts]

I had initially written this in a PM to neoprufrok, but I thought it'd be good to share with everyone else:



The holograms correspond in your buffer travel pattern? you're sure then, that it comes from PC'ing..



Another idea is that when you use DACP, you use strictly up and down motions on a panel, and remove the residue in that same pattern.. and when you apply and remove PI-III, you use strictly horizontal motions. when you apply gepc, apply and remove only in a diagonal line. The next time you take your car out in the sun, the pattern of the hologramming should reveal what step you're having a problem with.

Excellent procedural technique for identifying culprit of holograms. :bow

I still think it would be best to inspect after each polishing step. Therefore, if DACP is the problem no wasted MG III and

GEPC steps. :nixweiss

 

[Anthony O.]

Anthony- Actually, his paint is pretty hard, it's the same Audi clear that I'm always griping about. I must say it's got ME scratching my head...I think the problem is that once it gets marred, getting the marring out without causing a NEW problem is tricky without a rotary.



I think that now that the original marring/holograms have been sorta replaced by the marring from his pads/products, yeah, you're right, he needs to move down the ladder to milder approaches, spending more time than usual- really working the product to make sure it's not abrasive-breakdown related. Sounds like a job for a Cyclo, huh Like you, I'd try working the paint for a pretty long time with a mild polish and a polishing pad. Much as I love the 1Z stuff, this might be a good time for the FP.

OK, now I am reading the situation better:xyxthumbs I do 2 Audi's and they are both new so I have yet to put any machine to them, PC, Cyclo or rotary, but instead all by hand.



I have samples of 1Z coming to me so I can only speak on the FP and that's the route I would also take and like you said it needs to be worked in real well.



I guess I'll get a taste of how the Audi paint is when I give one of them their first machine polishing. If I have success I'll post my results and process.



Adios,

Anthony

 

[Bill D]

This is going to be a great learning experience for us other Audi owners out there :xyxthumbs

 

[neoprufrok]

Well, thanks for the support and advice. I think I'll plan to hit it with FP with white LC pad, although I'm still wary of my PC now and I'll go with the one panel at a time approach to see how it goes. If it doesn't work, I'll go up to DACP with white LC pad and then step down to FP with polishing then with finishing pad.

 

[paco]

Personally, I think it may be time to go back to the basics and start a new.



1. Section off a 3 foot x 3 foot area.

2. Forget a machine. I'd start with a very mild abrasive and do it by hand. SFP polish comes to mind from Meguiars. Using a foam applicator. What are the results like?

3. If you need a bit more bite, I'd go so DACP with a 100% Terry Applicator. What are the results like?



You should be able to clear up most of the issue's are describes.



For me, I believe the Porter Cable DA is more about arm/hand/back savings then getting the job done better. I love my PC-DA but at the end of the day, with out time/effort. I could probably achieve the same results by hand. Only the really severe swirls should be removed by hand after enough efforts o I would use that as a guide to what you may be doing wrong.



It sounds like to me that you are probably not working the product enough and potentially a contaminated pad that may have some very fine grit on it.



As for a rotary buffer, there pretty easy to use but hard to master. The level between making a great finish and burning it is just to fine. Getting the halo's etc. is also proof that it's probably more about working the product correctly. It sounds to me that the abrasives are not breaking down enough to polish out the scratches induced by the polish at it's most abrasive point.



1. Either the rotary buffer is at too high a speed to start so the product mares the surface and breaks down too quickly or



2. You're working the product in a way that it dries too quickly and doesn't have enough time to polish itself out.



If it were, I'd first figure out what was going on with the paint by hand. Then progressing to a DA to finish the rest of the car such that 80% or more of the problems are gone. Then I spot correct with a rotary. Then one final round with a Vanilla Moose type product before Final Step Protectant.



Hope that helps. Sometimes it's import to get back to basics to figure out what's wrong. Starting with the least abrasive product / pad combination and working your way up.

 

[Accumulator]

I do 2 Audi's and they are both new so I have yet to put any machine to them, PC, Cyclo or rotary, but instead all by hand...I guess I'll get a taste of how the Audi paint is when I give one of them their first machine polishing. If I have success I'll post my results and process.

I look forward to hearing about your Audi work. Heh heh, I'm sure you'll have success I just wonder if YOU will find the clear as hard to work as some of us do. If it's so hard, how does it always get marred up in the first place



The scratches on my S8 were NOT that bad (typical marring, from the shop that repaired the deer damage), but there was NO way they were coming out until I used the 1Z Ultra with a cutting pad on the rotary (and I tried a *lot* of milder approaches first- but they were always still visible if I looked hard enough and the light was just right).



Neoprufrok- I think that's gonna be a good approach :xyxthumbs



Paco- I've found the 1z polishes to be SO easy to use by rotary that they almost rewrite the rulebook. There IS a knack to using them with it (start pretty slow and don't speed it up too much), but they are MUCH more foolproof than most abrasives. You'd really have to fall asleep at the switch to burn paint with THOSE polishes if you're using an appropriate speed. Give 'em a try and see what you think.

 

[paco]

Accumaulator



I've actually been thinking about trying them out. 1Z Ultra being more aggressive then Diamond Cut is pretty daunting...



However, the "paint burn" thing is pad/machine related and not product dependant though IMO so even if you use IZ you need to be careful with technique.



I agree, I think people crank up their rotaries way too fast and it doesn't allow the product to level the scratch and then to buff out the product by properly diminishing the abrasive.

 

[Accumulator]

..I've actually been thinking about trying them out. 1Z Ultra being more aggressive then Diamond Cut is pretty daunting...



However, the "paint burn" thing is pad/machine related and not product dependant though IMO so even if you use IZ you need to be careful with technique.

I dunno if the Ultra is THAT harsh, but it sure cuts more than most Fine Cut RCs.



Maybe it's all the lubricating oils in the 1Z stuff, you'll see what I mean. But yeah, it's not like it rewrites the laws of physics and there's sure no substitute for common sense

 

[neoprufrok]

Well.. here's my plan of action (thanks to everyone who has added their thoughts and support).



1. Try IP/FP by hand ala scottwax if that doesn't work:





1. Try FP with LC white polishing pad

2. Try IP with white pad then FP with white pad

3. Try DACP white pad followed by IP then FP



I'm staying away from the yellow pad for now.

 

[Anthony O.]

Well.. here's my plan of action (thanks to everyone who has added their thoughts and support).



1. Try IP/FP by hand ala scottwax if that doesn't work:





1. Try FP with LC white polishing pad

2. Try IP with white pad then FP with white pad

3. Try DACP white pad followed by IP then FP



I'm staying away from the yellow pad for now.

Sounds like a winner plan:xyxthumbs



Anthony

 

[Accumulator]

Neoprufrok- Yeah, I think you're on the right track :xyxthumbs