Issues with soft paint and finishing polish on a rotary

[smbstyle]

So starting on Monday I was working on a 2004 CTS-V that has horrible swirls, RIDS, oxidation, and on top of that, has been repainted, and still has plenty of buffer trails left behind by the body shop.



Here are the before shots:

I was able to tackle the deeper imperfections with Malco tru-grit, which I've been using for years with success on a wool pad, but this is a pretty heavy duty combination that will leave behind some micro-marring.



After the heavy compounding, my first attempt was with SSR2.5 on an orange CCS pad followed by SSR2 on a white CCS pad, and I noticed this combination would leave behind buffer trails, and would not finish down good enough. I could tell the trails were from this combination as I changed the motion of the rotary from vertically up and down the hood to horizontally across the hood. I then tried SSR1 on a black CCS pad, and this still would not get rid of the buffer trails. Then, for the next hour, I tried different combinations of the SSRs and CCS pads, with still no luck in getting a flawless finish.



Here is what was being left behind; minimal, but still visible:

I then thought in the back of my head of all of the M105/M205 talk, and that the M205 finishes down great, has a long working time, and is easy to use. So I picked up a bottle, along with M105 just in case, as well as the Meguiar's soft buff 2.0 pads, as I have heard that the CCS pads are a bit aggressive and can leave behind marring on soft paints.



After M205 on a Meg's Soft Buff finishing pad:



(still some severe pitting on the hood - which was repainted poorly)

I THOUGHT the M205 on the Soft Buff 2.0 finishing pad did the trick, but the next day I could still see very slight holograms (still better than the results with the SSR line and PwS). You can somewhat see them in the picture below:

Any suggestions? I've never had this much of an issue trying to find a polish that will finish down properly; I've been using a rotary for about 6 years now. I'm working each polish/compound according to specifications, working small 2x2 areas at a time, keeping my pads cleaned, and all pads were brand new, as I was trying out the CCS pads and the entire SSR line for the first time.



I have heard really good things about Menzerna 85RD to finish down, but I'd like to get some feedback before going out and buying more product. I've had a great experience with Menzerna SIP/PO106ff a few years back, but have yet to use the 85RD. I've also heard great things about 3M Ultrafina.

 

[SVR]

G'day



So what rpm speeds were you using from start to finish?

The one thing I've learnt from my mentor that I've had since 2010 (40 year veteran of detailing and resto shops) is that a large majority of the polishes and compounds on the market (even some of the new ones) have a formula that gouges and tears at the paint to correct it instead of abrasives that tumble over it and progressively remove the damage and polish it to a better finish as they do that, which means a very forgiving formula and far less chance of holograms, swirls/marring etc



our biggest enemy though is abraded paint residue, especially when it's mixed in with the polish residue on the pad and clogging of the fibres (wool and MF pads) They scour the paint



clean your pad with compressed air and even water and air if you want, after each section, sometimes even 3/4 of the way into doing a section and then re buffing for 30 seconds to a minute.



Gouging compounds/polishes and abraded paint residue on the pad means a higher chance of swirls and marring after your done with any machine

The formula's of some brands are nothing special at all and in fact date back many decades.

It costs massive dollars to develop a truly world class polish or polish range (whether single polish system or multi graded)

Most wont spend that and rely on formula's from many decades ago but with newer abrasive technology. Cheap solvents are used including odourless kerosene that softens the paint alot thus increasing the cutting performance (old farecla G3 for example)



I was using Menzerna in 2002-03 probably just before or around the time it became all the rage on here and I loved it back then, superb abrasives. However it's designed for ceramic paint so never use that on soft paint as it has sharply faced abrasives as did the rest of the original ceramic line RD 3.02 etc) it can do it if you get it just right technique wise but I'd hate to be stuck with just that for every car. Plus it lacks the finish quality of some of today's stuff (a water in oil formula not oil in water as it should be thus way too much oil)



Stopped using menz in 2009 and went 100% waterborne



Anyhow the first step is the most important, really spend the time when you do that and slow down the rotary rpm's right down to speed 1 and lighten pressure, even blow your pad clean with compressed air 3/4 of the way though doing each section and add a tiny fraction of new product and buff again at speed 1 (means no more abraded paint residue to scour the paint) for 30 seconds to a minute



If you start at 1200 to 1500 or even 1800, keep the pad flat or at least buff flat for a while as you finish down. keep the wool pad moist (I use a tiny amount of parrafin oil for that but water is fine if your using solvent based polishes) and bring your rpm's down by 200 rpm and do one horizontal and vertical pass before going down another 200 rpm, all the way back to at least 900 but 600 if you can



I usually correct at 800 but sometimes bump it up to 900-1000 but that's all. the days of 1500 to 2200 are long gone



Then go to DA with Microfibre and then foam. I don't care for cutting foams really for step 2, surbuf and Microfibre (in that order) are way better as they give a closer shave so to speak

Some paints are a real PITA and just will not like the rotary no matter what you do so you'll have to stick with a DA or a random orbital with some paints.



P.S. Don't waste your time with 3M Ultrafina as it has carcinogenic solvents from the skin care industry in it (fact) and fillers. They use those solvents because they are better quality than stoddard solvent/naptha and other cheap crappy solvents but health risk of them makes it pointless. This stuff is in all sorts of personal care products and some polishes



sorry for being so long winded but some need to know these things. The quality of the finish is more important than the speed of correction) not the other way around.

 

[Accumulator]

smbstyle- No surprise that the M205 didn't finish out well for you, I don't always like the finish it leaves on even very hard clear.



With Menzerna's PO106ff, you gotta watch that the oils aren't just filling things in, the concealing from that product can be downright amazing.



I'd go with either HD Polish or Menzerna's PO85RD, though I do like the seldom-mentioned 1Z High Gloss too.



Oh, and FWIW, I almost always work areas considerably smaller than 2' X 2' unless I'm merely burnishing/jeweling an already perfectly-corrected finish.