Is this typical practices for a high volume detail shop?

jsatek said:
I remember guys in the Boogie Down Bronx (Jerome Ave) that used to pride themselves in rotary holograms. They told me they thought if they lined them up just right, the car looked like it was just buffed???



PRIDE in job done poorly!
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Seriously, that is scary! :nervous2:
 
JuneBug said:
Why are wool pads so taboo? Coming from a body shop background and lately visiting my old employer's - they still use wool. I think it's more of a training and technique thing than anything else. Let's face it, some folks can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, and others should stick to a PC and a polishing pad. Me? I'd compare the before and after results and if they were good, then what's the problem? The fact that they've been around for 20 years should speak for itself.
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You're absolutely right. People avoid them probably because they don't know how to use them. I think they're much easier to control and work with in some cases than foam. I think that if you're doing constant paint rehabilitation, a wool makes the most sense, unless you're a garage guy who has days to burn away on a single detail.



Danase - Wool definately cuts more, but doesn't foam create more heat? Can we try the test on you car? :grinno:
 
Scottwax said:
I bet if you looked at the cars in the sun they'd be covered in rotary holograms. I don't know of anyone who can finish out completely swirl free using wool.
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Wool pad finishing w/o swirls is easy. Making them stay that way after a wash or two is a different story. Using proper techiques with the appropriate products help too. Untrained people can swirl up a vehicle with a foam pad if they don't know what you're doing. Wool pads just won't give you that deep finish that a foam pad generates. Rick Schmitt from Auto Magic does a demonstrates with their heavy cut compound and a brand new wool pad on a black car where he pulls it outside after 1 stepping it and there's not 1 swirl. Amazing. Baddest dude around. :bow
 
hey junebug,



I was at a megs detail seminar last year hosted my pal automotive in nj. The instructor rod kraft had an infared temp guage. He took a brand new wool pad and a brand new cutting foam pad(both megs) and ran them both at 1200rpm on the rotary(speed is plus or minus) for a set time (i believe 10 to 15 seconds) and the foam pad generated significantly more heat than the wool pad as in 25 to 40 degrees differance. Just thought I would add this.



A.Parshall
 
I cut my teeth on wool..but I sure dont miss those days of having a bolt in the middle of the pad.
 
Wool works. I can remove 1500 grit sanding marks with it. Whether I can 'finish' with that same pad is irrelevant.



I have foam finishing pads that will accomplish a fantastic finish at low speed, and with minimal heat. And still leave tsubstantial clear...



I think the pros are in agreement on this, I chime in just for the newbies who may be reading...



Jim
 
David Fermani said:
You're absolutely right. People avoid them probably because they don't know how to use them. I think they're much easier to control and work with in some cases than foam. I think that if you're doing constant paint rehabilitation, a wool makes the most sense, unless you're a garage guy who has days to burn away on a single detail.



Danase - Wool definately cuts more, but doesn't foam create more heat? Can we try the test on you car? :grinno:
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Sure! It's a lease anyway! LMAO ;)
 
David Fermani said:
Wool pad finishing w/o swirls is easy. Making them stay that way after a wash or two is a different story. ...Rick Schmitt from Auto Magic does a demonstrates with their heavy cut compound and a brand new wool pad on a black car where he pulls it outside after 1 stepping it and there's not 1 swirl. Amazing. Baddest dude around. :bow
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That has alot to do with the product. If you can't keep a car hologram free after a few washes it means you're using a product high in fillers. Most one-step and dealership designed products are.
 
NHBFAN said:
I got the opportunity today to watch a high volume detailing operation today, although I'm not sure what exactly was going on.



After washing the vehicle they moved it to an area where 2 or 3 people at a time worked on it. 1 person clean interior, 1 person cleaned windows and dressed tires, and 1 person operated a DeWalt rotary with a large wool bonnet (12"), btw, I have zero rotary experience.



This particular shop used AutoMagic products.



The guy with the rotary layed down lines of products from a squeeze bottle directly to a panel then buffed (at relatively low rpms) with the large bonnet until the product was almost gone. He then wiped with a terry cloth rag (didn't see a MF all day), but not very thorougly. After he completed the buffing process he inspected each panel and removed any remaining product with a spray (QD?)



Most of the vehicles were late models that didn't require extensive paint restoration (compounding). I'm guessing the AutoMagic stuff was a 1-step cleaner wax.
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Sounds like common practice for a high volume shop. You don't have to use microfiber towels,foam pads, pc's, and all the other trendy botique items to be a respected detail shop.



I learned how to detail from one of these high volume shops and haven't changed much over the years. I must be doing something right or i wouldn't be in business.
 
MichaelM said:
That has alot to do with the product. If you can't keep a car hologram free after a few washes it means you're using a product high in fillers. Most one-step and dealership designed products are.
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Most(not all) polishes on the market have fillers in them. Even if you buffed a finish with a product w/o fillers and created swirls and then covered them up/hide them with an LSP, the swirls are bound to come back real soon. As far as Rick Schmidt goes, he actually demonstrates the buffing process with a heavy cut compound without fillers. My point is that swirls(wheel marks) are mostly user created in many cases and can be greatly eliminated and reduced by understanding the process. Alot of experienced high volume detailers have learned the correct process and can buff with wool and then top it with a LSP and never see a wheel mark come back because they never created one in the first place. Takes practice. :hifive:
 
Scottwax said:
Seriously, that is scary! :nervous2:
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Your right scott. I remember that saying or method. The sad part was the customers use to fall for it and tell all of there friends that it was just buffed out. Amazing how things changed.
 
Here is a test!

Some people are so scared of wool pads. I love wool pads for severe 100% mar and scratch free finish. Wool pads with the right polish or compound will make the paint as smooth as glass or even smoother. It does take experience though..a lot! I do love the pc though. I wish I had a pc 15 years ago.



I did do a comparison test a while back comparing a pc with a lc yellowand oarange pad versus a rotory with a wool pad. It really depends on the paint, make, condition, etc.

I tried it on 2 vehicles and this is what I came up with. Sorry no pics, this was back in the summer just fooling around when I first got my pc.



First Up the pc LC yellow pad and orange pad- tried quite a bit of polishes, op, ohc, ssr3, xmt3, power gloss, etc. I set it on speed 6 with menz. power gloss and did half the hood of a 98 corvette (red) with some severe marring and heavy swirling (guy said he has this perfect car wash for me behind the seat that he always uses (murphys oil soap) kid you not. So I know that this was a tough job for the pc. After 30 minutes of fighting on half the hood it looked pretty good. I took my special light and looked at it and had some wierd marks still there somewhat, but would not come out. It was about 95% perfect. Now this was a hard one for the pc. Did good though!



Now the rotory Now the bad boy! my mid 1980's black and decker all steel(like a tank) rotory with a wool pad. For these vettes I have my special polish/compound. In about only 10 minutes with ease on the other half of the hood I was done.

It came out unbelieveable! I got out my light and inspected. STUNNING! Looked like a piece of rock hard candy shell with no defects at all. 100% deep deep and glowing insane gloss! Every scratch was completly GONE!



Conclusion I loved the pc very much, but for heavy defects a rotory with a wool pad is very much needed (with the right polish or compound). I used the rotory and an oranage foam pad and it was binding on this paint, so I went to the wool and it was easy. After I did the whole car I then grabbed the pc with some 106ff polish and a lc pad and it was as wet as could be with no defects. It was like an absolute mirror.



The pc is great for most jobs with normal paint, and are the best especially for finesse work! For those tough swirls and heavy marring and/or hard paint such as corvettes a wool pad and a rotory is needed and the finesse it with a pc.



This was a fun test and I even got $250 to fix this guys car right and I even gave him some soap and a real wash mitt. I had seen him since then a couple of months after that and he said he could not believe how good the car came out and he can't believe it still is glowing like that after 3 months. He wanted to know how I did a better job than GM. He said, he had it detailed 2 years ago and only lasted for 3 weeks.I just laughed!:nixweiss :grinno:
 
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David Fermani said:
Most(not all) polishes on the market have fillers in them. Even if you buffed a finish with a product w/o fillers and created swirls and then covered them up/hide them with an LSP, the swirls are bound to come back real soon.
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I agree completely





David Fermani said:
As far as Rick Schmidt goes, he actually demonstrates the buffing process with a heavy cut compound without fillers.
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If this is the case, well then he is all that and then some. Just something you kinda need to see with your own eyes to believe, ya know? It's also something I wouldn't think to try, let alone teach an employee to do.
 
Wished I had the opportunity to work for a high volume detailing shop. I bet I could learn some efficient time saving tricks.



And I think I know enough to know which "tricks" to avoid.
 
I know of a high volume shop in Salt Lake City that does the same things... They will chop up details into sections (ie...extracting and vinyl cleanup, wash, buff and polish, wax with glass and final wipedown). The owner pays a flat rate of $35 per detail (he charges $75 per dealer cars and more for retail) and each section gets the appropriate amount of that $35. The employees put in alot of hours and usually end up making minimum wage by default, big turnover in employees with exception of management.



Just what I have seen.....
 
I'm looking to get some Edge2k pads and since they have wool pads - David and others - please feel free to recommend which ones and also what compounds/polishes work with what. I read about the "zenith" method and it worked well on some light scratches, I used a LC orange pad and XMT#3 (yeah I know it's kinda wimpy) Man, I love this stuff!
 
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