SoonerFan
New member
Could't agree anymore with your comments Dave. I have been caught a few times by some rave reviews over a product just to find that its performance was not to my expectation.
Is there an unbiased or overly biased review?
- Thread starter SouthernBoy
- Start date
imported_JSFM35X
New member
I think almost anyone is a natural born promoter weather they know it or not. When it comes to trying a new product and reviewing it most people IMO tend to give rave reviews, simply because they have tried something that many others have not AND a lot of guys want to be the first one to start the next flavor of the month or trend in detailing.
This happens all the time, think about restaurants, movies, books... people who eat at a new restaurant on opening day and simply "like" their food and service, go on to tell their friends about how this "great new place" opened up and "you have to try it" when in fact that restaurant simply was decent, but probably no better than anywhere else in town they are used to eating at. Excitement and exaggeration are generated through ego sometimes rather than facts.
I dont think when it comes to detailing that its spamming because spamming is simply chaotic plugging without even the attempt of reasoning and its easily called out. Sure some guys spam but the majority dont try to be malicious about it, I hope
Another big issue, and I even wrote a thread on product reviews and my opinions on them is that people tend to favor things they just spent money on! New $200 wax? Sure its the best wax ever! (how can it not be, you just dropped a pay check on it:huh
When someone is doing a product review with their brand new expensive wax, after they apply it and buff it off they look at the car and again (many guys) will subconsciously think the car looks and feels better with this particular wax on it and then give a review on the forums reflecting those same perceptions. People do this because they want to justify their expense and a lot of times again they arent lying about it they simply cannot control their subconscious.
I have learned to look at products from a purely objective standpoint now and I'll tell you it makes me find and use the best products based on PERFORMANCE rather than prestige or price. Come to think of it I have never purchased a wax or sealant that costs more than $35... ever.
Very well said! +1...
I do not buy anthing reviewed by someone I don't feel I know, here or elsewhere. i have gotten to know guys here and by being around every day youy get to know (and see), who the real deal is. When I first got into detailing as a serious hobby, I did not care what it cost but that it worked the best and easiest. What I learned is there is more than product. Technique is the diferentiator (is that a word?)
Just like photography, you can buy the camera, but it won't make you better unless you learn technique. David, thants for taking the time to teach me via TID how to de-swirl my car. I will be forever grateful for the Rx you posted of pads and Polishes that faithful day. And Barry, my exhaust tips have never looked so good as they do now that you turned me onto P21S polishing soap. i never would have tried that without your suggestion.
Thanks and appreciate all your advise. Stay warm !
imported_Mr. Gloss
New member
I sense that in all the forums, especially AG.
If you are disappointed in one of their products or disagree over its intended performance, you instantaneously become a hack, inexperienced, don't have a clue what you're doing, weekend nightmare.
AG has many cheerleaders. Some may not even use the products, they just want a UPS box to open and photograph.
Dave offered the best explanation.
Some guys will spend $39 on 8 oz of relabeled wax and glorify it even though it's mediocre. Yet, let his $.99 fries be cool and watch out!
Junebug
JAFO
Costs is not always an indication of quality. I'm a cheap bastard when it comes to some things like cleaners, dressings, and waxes.
I guess I was like a lot of guys that started reading up on detailing and assumed that anything sold by an on-line detail supply just had to be the mack daddy best, they sure sounded like they were on the ad. But, I quickly learned the hard way, bought the Wolfgang collection and WTF! This stuff sure aint all that and a bag of chips! Then I started trying to buy and try every product made, well, I've found that most are about the same but I found a few that I liked and kept using.
I'm a bit gun shy when it comes to the next big flaver of the month, I'll wait till I really need it and after a few others have tried and posted results.
There is one product that I've tried and really hyped up on detailing forums and that is BFWD, it's the only thing that I found was Junebug proof (so easy a caveman can do it)!
I guess I was like a lot of guys that started reading up on detailing and assumed that anything sold by an on-line detail supply just had to be the mack daddy best, they sure sounded like they were on the ad. But, I quickly learned the hard way, bought the Wolfgang collection and WTF! This stuff sure aint all that and a bag of chips! Then I started trying to buy and try every product made, well, I've found that most are about the same but I found a few that I liked and kept using.
I'm a bit gun shy when it comes to the next big flaver of the month, I'll wait till I really need it and after a few others have tried and posted results.
There is one product that I've tried and really hyped up on detailing forums and that is BFWD, it's the only thing that I found was Junebug proof (so easy a caveman can do it)!
imported_Mr. Gloss
New member
And then there's the layering crowd that's always selling a layer of this, followed by a layer of that, followed by 4 or 5 layers of this and that.
When working with products that contain mineral spirits, the follow up layer may be diminishing the previous layer.
Anybody ever done a study on diminishing returns pertaining to sealants and waxes?
After 5 layers of wax you may discover that you've applied one layer.
When working with products that contain mineral spirits, the follow up layer may be diminishing the previous layer.
Anybody ever done a study on diminishing returns pertaining to sealants and waxes?
After 5 layers of wax you may discover that you've applied one layer.
Junebug
JAFO
I read about a guy over in England that did like 50 layers of zaino, give me a break! Just get your damn car repainted with more clear if you're that anal.
How about the sandwich approach - 1 layer of sealant, add 2-3 layers of wax, a layer of glaze, another sealer, some wonder spray and .....
How about the sandwich approach - 1 layer of sealant, add 2-3 layers of wax, a layer of glaze, another sealer, some wonder spray and .....
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
Street Dreams
New member
What people have been trying to do for years, me being one, is try to bridge a gap between wax/sealant and a coating. Bottom line is you can have 10 layers of BFWD on a car and if sprinklers hit the car and it sits in sun.. you will inevitably have hard water spots. You can top an acrylic glaze with a polymer sealant and finish it all over with a high quality carnauba wax and guess what... your paint still wont be bulletproof!
I have had Opti Coat on my car and its been holding up fantastic for the past 3 months.. last week I pre-soaked it with Optimum power clean to loosen up some of the salt grime from the roads and guess what, afterward it was still beading like a champ... 10 layers of any regular wax or sealant wont have that kind of resilliancy, ever. As for bird bombs, they come off with a quick pressure washer blast.
Now that these coatings are becoming more popular I think someone will be more likley to apply 1-2 coats of a coating opposed to 5+ layers of any regular LSP if there are really looking for maximum protection.
As for the argument on wheather 57 layers of X LSP looks better than 3 layers.... Im not even touching that one :White Horse:
I have had Opti Coat on my car and its been holding up fantastic for the past 3 months.. last week I pre-soaked it with Optimum power clean to loosen up some of the salt grime from the roads and guess what, afterward it was still beading like a champ... 10 layers of any regular wax or sealant wont have that kind of resilliancy, ever. As for bird bombs, they come off with a quick pressure washer blast.
Now that these coatings are becoming more popular I think someone will be more likley to apply 1-2 coats of a coating opposed to 5+ layers of any regular LSP if there are really looking for maximum protection.
As for the argument on wheather 57 layers of X LSP looks better than 3 layers.... Im not even touching that one :White Horse:
imported_Bunky
New member
Some of these comments contain the elements I was trying to get discussed.
There are fanatics at other forums besides some mention.. I think the real test if the person will ever use more than one brand or it is when in the Steelers sport bar do we root for the Steelers?
I see equally vocal MOL users too but most products work as advertised but some just last longer, smell better, etc. than others. If liking an "inferior" product, does that make someone an idiot?
If I paid $20 for the same product elsewhere for $12 is that really bad if I get great customer service?
If the product works but need to apply it a little more often is that bad?
Just feeding the discussion...
There are fanatics at other forums besides some mention.. I think the real test if the person will ever use more than one brand or it is when in the Steelers sport bar do we root for the Steelers?
I see equally vocal MOL users too but most products work as advertised but some just last longer, smell better, etc. than others. If liking an "inferior" product, does that make someone an idiot?
If I paid $20 for the same product elsewhere for $12 is that really bad if I get great customer service?
If the product works but need to apply it a little more often is that bad?
Just feeding the discussion...
weekendwarrior
New member
Great thread.
On some sites, it is obvious that the only products promoted are those sold by the forum's store. Initially, I was a product whore, when I came to the detailing world several years back. I then realized that the flavor of the month wasn't always worth the hype that surrounded it.
Without naming names, there was one brand that hit the market a few years back, that was getting a lot of acclaim, that I found to be "run of the mill", and over priced. That product no longer gets the hype it did back then.
Conversely, I have found brands like Meguiar's to be "timeless". I have told many a client, that if they are ever in doubt, and need to buy an over the counter product that they can't go wrong with the Meguiar's brand (and used correctly). Let's face it, good old Meguiar's 26 is a GREAT wax, and products such as Quick Interior Detailer, and some of the wheel cleaners are top notch for the average guy trying to take care of his own ride.
Over the years, I have learned that what may work well for one guy, may not for others. I remember a few years back, Junebug told me he had issues using Meguiar's 21...while I did not. Which I now agree with him that BFWD is easier to use, and just as durable for me. I have also had good luck with Zaino, while others find it to be confusing, and have issues.
All in all, I now no longer purchase every new product that comes to the market, and try to stick with the products that have served me well over the years. However, there are a handfull of detailers that I trust, that I will venture out if they tell me that they have had good success with a certain product I have yet to try.
On some sites, it is obvious that the only products promoted are those sold by the forum's store. Initially, I was a product whore, when I came to the detailing world several years back. I then realized that the flavor of the month wasn't always worth the hype that surrounded it.
Without naming names, there was one brand that hit the market a few years back, that was getting a lot of acclaim, that I found to be "run of the mill", and over priced. That product no longer gets the hype it did back then.
Conversely, I have found brands like Meguiar's to be "timeless". I have told many a client, that if they are ever in doubt, and need to buy an over the counter product that they can't go wrong with the Meguiar's brand (and used correctly). Let's face it, good old Meguiar's 26 is a GREAT wax, and products such as Quick Interior Detailer, and some of the wheel cleaners are top notch for the average guy trying to take care of his own ride.
Over the years, I have learned that what may work well for one guy, may not for others. I remember a few years back, Junebug told me he had issues using Meguiar's 21...while I did not. Which I now agree with him that BFWD is easier to use, and just as durable for me. I have also had good luck with Zaino, while others find it to be confusing, and have issues.
All in all, I now no longer purchase every new product that comes to the market, and try to stick with the products that have served me well over the years. However, there are a handfull of detailers that I trust, that I will venture out if they tell me that they have had good success with a certain product I have yet to try.
What a thought-provoking topic!
One aspect that needs to be mentioned, though, is TIME.
Like the Brit that used 50 coats of brand Z: does that stuff work? Yeah, in my experience it's okay. And I bought it because a friend in my car club is the state distributor for it.
But do any of us, or WILL any of us, spend the TIME to apply a zillion coats, making sure to rub this way, but not that, and wait a precise amount of time for it to "cure?"
If you look at return on investment (of time), there are some no brainers, like BFWD: Huge payoff for time spent. Same with the M105 and M205, at least for me.
Liked the comment about the P21S polishing soap; that will be my next investment....
One aspect that needs to be mentioned, though, is TIME.
Like the Brit that used 50 coats of brand Z: does that stuff work? Yeah, in my experience it's okay. And I bought it because a friend in my car club is the state distributor for it.
But do any of us, or WILL any of us, spend the TIME to apply a zillion coats, making sure to rub this way, but not that, and wait a precise amount of time for it to "cure?"
If you look at return on investment (of time), there are some no brainers, like BFWD: Huge payoff for time spent. Same with the M105 and M205, at least for me.
Liked the comment about the P21S polishing soap; that will be my next investment....
PorscheGuy997
New member
To be honest, I try not to post any product reviews because of an incident a while back. My review of a very expensive wax was not favorable. In fact, User Name tested a sample of the wax and found the same results. Any time someone posts a comment about this product, the owner is quick to chime in and blame the user. Obviously, the product cannot ever, under any circumstance, be at fault.
Often times, it is more helpful to find the negative attributes of the product. For example, a certain polish may be too thick for cold weather conditions. However, it may work perfectly in a warm atmosphere.
Then there are the shill reviews. I recall one individual who switched companies and instantly changed his view on certain products. Recommending a sub $20 sealant on one site to recommending a $95 paste wax is awful suspicious. Or when one individual asks a simple question about a product and a moderator instantly chimes in with his recommendation on an in-house product.
Often times, it is more helpful to find the negative attributes of the product. For example, a certain polish may be too thick for cold weather conditions. However, it may work perfectly in a warm atmosphere.
Then there are the shill reviews. I recall one individual who switched companies and instantly changed his view on certain products. Recommending a sub $20 sealant on one site to recommending a $95 paste wax is awful suspicious. Or when one individual asks a simple question about a product and a moderator instantly chimes in with his recommendation on an in-house product.
imported_Bunky
New member
I fully expect that a person with very close affiliation to a online retailer site. I do not see any resident guru at any seller's forum declare any product sold by the house as crap.
But you see thread jacking by many posters like when some says "what is the difference between Meg's APC and APC+" and then someone says skip Meg;s and use Optimum FTW. etc.
For example, I do not expect any place's resident guru's or even loyalists selling Meguiars 1 pad system to make negative comments on it despite so many posts skeptical of its economic practicality. I see that self-censorship very evident by some well known names. The silence is deafening but had DB at Autopia had promoted it I suspect you would have seen more vocal questions.
imported_User Name
New member
Wow, not only is the EXACTLY true, but it is spooky and it hasn't just happend to me and Chris, but I've seen this guy track down anyone who has negative things to say about his product.
His product (which I will not name, becuase once you name the product - the owner of the company finds the thread and starts going after you - lol). In any event, it is a "boutique" wax and most of the detailers I trust, have had much of the same experience, however, if you post that opinion, within a day or two, the owner of the company will be on you like a fly on sh*t
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
Great OP/thread.
While you guys are 100% entitled to your opinions and we want to provide you a place to speak how you feel (in a respectful manner), naming other companies, forums, etc puts PAC/TID in a bad light. So lets (Please!) keep the discussion on topic but steer it away from bashing.
While you guys are 100% entitled to your opinions and we want to provide you a place to speak how you feel (in a respectful manner), naming other companies, forums, etc puts PAC/TID in a bad light. So lets (Please!) keep the discussion on topic but steer it away from bashing.
michakaveli
New member
Let's pull the cat out of the bag and call out D..o J..ce.... I like ba.ana's... and the Ban.n Ar.our wax was quickly one of my favorite waxes.... All was well until I bought a pot of Me.'s 26 for giggles, and uncovered it smells virtually the same.... X_X
imported_Mr. Gloss
New member
TIME....is certainly an investment so I'm naturally looking to achieve the best results.
If one product like BFWD performs according to the label, then one product is all I really need.
I wonder how many cabinets are filled with hyped products versus required products?
When a guy bares his all and he's got 19 bottles of sealant, 20 waxes and 8-10 tire treatments in a cabinet, when will he have time to use up his inventory?
I have two cars. One bottle of BFWD will last a long, long time even if applying two coats per season, followed by two layers of Midnight Sun.
So, is forum hype the retailers best friend? I think it is. Without repeat customers trying or testing the next best product or wasting product, business would be too slow to maintain a site.
If one product like BFWD performs according to the label, then one product is all I really need.
I wonder how many cabinets are filled with hyped products versus required products?
When a guy bares his all and he's got 19 bottles of sealant, 20 waxes and 8-10 tire treatments in a cabinet, when will he have time to use up his inventory?
I have two cars. One bottle of BFWD will last a long, long time even if applying two coats per season, followed by two layers of Midnight Sun.
So, is forum hype the retailers best friend? I think it is. Without repeat customers trying or testing the next best product or wasting product, business would be too slow to maintain a site.
mikenap
New member
I agree with this, to a point. My own collection is quite modest by most standards, but I do have a few different sealants, waxes and tire dressings. My experience is that very little of my products were bought due to "forum hype." Tire dressings, for example, are very subjective and I bought several I was less than excited about until I found one I really liked(Opti-bond 1:1!).
As another example, I have a few different glass cleaners. They ALL clean glass. But I hate the foaming Stoners-type aerosol on interiors, so I bought Surf City Clearly Better. Works great, but then someone recommended Meg's Detailer Line glass cleaner as a "budget" alternative. So some products work well, but in different areas.
I think there will be some "flavor of the month" detailers, who just have to have the latest and greatest. There will be the "wax collectors" who want to impress by having the largest, most esoteric wax collection around. There will be the "experimenters", like myself, who try multiple products until they find ones they are satisfied with. The pros need a vast selection of products(usually) since they have many different tastes and preferences to satisfy. When it comes down to it, detailing is a hobby and no one is wrong or right for spending their own money how they see fit.
Sorry for the thread-jack!
