Is Paint cleaner really necessary if polishing?

[imported_detail1]

2007 white Chevy Monte Carlo SS



Problem: moderate spider webs

Process: 1. wash with foam gun

2. clay while wet and use Tarminator as lube

3. Re-wash

4. Megs 105 w/Flex DA - white pad

5. IPA

6. Menzerna PO85RD - blue pad

7. IPA

8. Pinnacle Paint cleanser? - blue pad?

9. DWG - black pad

10. Megs 16

11. Souveran or CMW



Can i go from megs 105 straight to PO85RD. I really dont want to add in another polish like FPII.



Thanks

 

[longdx]

The answer really is that it depends. Usually, GM clear is pretty hard and if M105 finishes down to almost LSP condition, then it should be no problem going to Merzerna PO85RD. In my experience, usuing a paint cleanser is only necessary if you are doing a mild detail (i.e paint is in pretty good condition, then sometimes using paint cleanser then LSP is only needed).

 

[Accumulator]

IME M105 doesn't finish out quite as well as one might think, just gotta get the inspection condtions right and you see micromarring that was otherwise invisible. This requires natural sunlight or a 3M SunGun (brinkmans/etc. don't work) and everything has to be just right; it can take quite a lot of inspecting before you see the "problem" but when you do you'll understand what I'm so concerned about.



So...I'm not sure the Menzerna PO85RD/blue is a sufficient follow-up (but I'm certan that going from M105 to FPII wouldn't work). I don't use it, but I have to be careful following M105 with M205 if I want to be 100% certain of a finish that's OK under *every* inspection condition. Otherwise it looks fine 99% of the time but I can get the inspection conditions just-so and suddenly it's not the way it appeared a moment before.



The Pinnacle PCL is nice stuff but I dunno if it's needed after an IPA wipe. IMO that will result in it being as much of a glaze as a cleaner (probably even moreso) and I can't help but think the DWG would suffice on its own.

 

[SuperBee364]

+1 to what longdx said. GM clear is fairly hard. If you do have some compounding marks or holos left after the 105, the 85RD may not have the chops to remove them in one application. yes, 85rd is meant for hard clears, but it's meant to be a jeweling poilsh on hard clears and doesn't have much cut for cleaning up compounding marks. A good compromise would be to use PO106FF after the M105, as it has a bit more oomph to it, yet still finishes down very well.

 

[imported_detail1]

Pics added

 

[wannafbody]

Depends on what polish you are using. Most polishes don't have cleaners in them. DACP and ZPC are exceptions.



An AIO would act as a cleaner after polishing.

 

[imported_detail1]

Which of the following polishes would be best after Megs 105?



Menzerna IP

FPII

Megs 83

Megs 9

Poliseal

1Z Paint Polish



Or should i buy Megs 205 - i can get a small botle from ADS



I do plan on burnishing with PO85RD.

 

[ten39]

An AIO would act as a cleaner after polishing.

But why? What's the point? Honest question.



If you clay, polish, and then ipa or wash a finish, I don't understand why one needs to move to some sort of an AIO before the final wax or sealant.

 

[imported_detail1]

To chemically clean the paint. Last year, I forgot to use paint cleaner. I went through the whole process- wash, clay, IP and SIP, IPA and I still had some little black dots in the paint.

 

[Envious Eric]

I never use one...my process is usually 105 - 205 - FPII - sealant/wax or 105, SIP, FPII, wax



try out 83 vs 205, and 83 vs SIP...its worth the price difference (205/SIP) as I cannot get 83 to remove the defects and leave a decent finish in comparison...hence why i have a 100% full bottle of 83 I want to sell to someone who likes it...

 

[GoudyL]

This is all too complex. And especially for a white car??? Why even bother polishing it, when its not going go show paint defects if clean?



1. Wash + prespot with bug and tar remover as needed.

2. Clay, (do not use Bug and Tar remover as lube, it will disolve the clay)

3. Pre-wax cleaner (Use Mothers Prewax cleaner)

4. Re-wash



5. Some kind of light polish on a white pad. (Meg's 205/SwirlX/KIT Scratch Out etc)

6. Turtle Wax Ice Liquid/(Paste + Ice QD)

7. A few hours later top with Lucas Slick Mist and buff with a clean MF towel.

 

[Deep Gloss Auto Salon]

This is all too complex. And especially for a white car??? Why even bother polishing it, when its not going go show paint defects if clean?



1. Wash + prespot with bug and tar remover as needed.

2. Clay, (do not use Bug and Tar remover as lube, it will disolve the clay)

3. Pre-wax cleaner (Use Mothers Prewax cleaner)

4. Re-wash



5. Some kind of light polish on a white pad. (Meg's 205/SwirlX/KIT Scratch Out etc)

6. Turtle Wax Ice Liquid/(Paste + Ice QD)

7. A few hours later top with Lucas Slick Mist and buff with a clean MF towel.

I disagree with you GL.... Even though you may think white paint wont "show paint defects when clean" I know it will... you may have to look harder than a black car but they are there... And when they are there, light is refracting vs reflecting... A level clear is just as desirable on a white/silver light colored car :bolt



OT: to the OP, Your title asks if you need a paint cleaner yet the body of your post asks if you can go from M105 to 85rd..



I agree with what Accumulator said about you may think that M105 finishes nicely but in full sun you see the leftovers it leavs... SB is also correct regarding 85rd not being the right product to use as a clean up to M105... What other polishes do you have?

 

[GoudyL]

I disagree with you GL.... Even though you may think white paint wont "show paint defects when clean" I know it will... you may have to look harder than a black car but they are there... And when they are there, light is refracting vs reflecting... A level clear is just as desirable on a white/silver light colored car :bolt

If you are anal enough you will always find a paint defect to worry about. :buffing:



Assuming the white paint is clean, and reasonably smooth, you won't see any paint defects due to the lack of constrast between defects (which tend to appear whitish) against the background field.



That's the exact opposite of what happens with a highly polished black car, where everything contrasts



A clean white car is going to pass the 5 foot test with ease. Does a paint defect exist if you can't see it? I doubt the OP needs anything more than a light polish ,if even that is called for, since Mothers pre-wax cleaner has some polishing ability itself.

I agree with what Accumulator said about you may think that M105 finishes nicely but in full sun you see the leftovers it leavs... SB is also correct regarding 85rd not being the right product to use as a clean up to M105... What other polishes do you have?

It's compounding haze, something like SwirlX should be able to handle it with ease.

 

[mmarmarou]

I was actually just about to post a similar question. Is it ok to go straight from SIP to PO87? I'd rather not go to 106FA in between if I can help it. The SIP seemed to finish down nice. It's a porsche, if that helps.



Thanks!

 

[DM101]

I use PO85RD, RMG, Souveran, Fuzion or Vintage.... Awesome

 

[Deep Gloss Auto Salon]

Does a paint defect exist if you can't see it?

I think you mean if you cant see it because you are not close enough or under the right lighting conditions which the answer would be yes.



Just because you have to be in the right light to spot a defect does not mean that it doesn't detract from the looks of the car... If light is beiung scattered (refracting) instead of reflecting back to you the potential beauty is not revealed.



Going by your rationale one could incorrectly say "I only see the swirl marks when looking at the paint under the direct sunlight so it's no big deal".. That would be an incorrect statement and is the same as what you are saying.



Swirl marks are swirl marks regardless of the color car and they degrade the optical appearance of a car just the same... Treating cars clearcoat differently based on color is not the way to achieve a stunning exterior appearance which is what the OP must want or he/she would not be here...

 

[SuperBee364]

This is all too complex. And especially for a white car??? Why even bother polishing it, when its not going go show paint defects if clean?.

Yes, white cars hide defects better than any other color. White cars, however, also *show* gloss as well as any other color. A highly polished white car is stunning. The gloss you can achieve will make you go "That's a white car?" White cars are worth every bit as much effort to gloss up as any other color. A glossed up white car is every bit as stunning as a glossed up black car.



I'm not *that* big of a sealant fan; I'll use 'nubas whenver I can, but to *really* pop that white paint, stay away from stuff like GoudyL's fav turtle wax stuff. Go for a good sealant like FK 1000P, UPGP, Klasse, etc. White looks phenomenal under a good sealant. Sealants aren't normally known for depth, but if you've got good prep and a good sealant on white, you'll end up unconsciously tapping the paint with your finger because of the depth you'll see.

I was actually just about to post a similar question. Is it ok to go straight from SIP to PO87? I'd rather not go to 106FA in between if I can help it. The SIP seemed to finish down nice. It's a porsche, if that helps.



Thanks!

Unfortunately, there's no blanket "yes, you can", "no you can't" answer for that. It's gonna depend on the actual paint. The best thing to do would be to try it, but make sure you have other polishes available in case the SIP to PO87 plan doesn't work. It sure would be cool if this will work for you... save you a bunch of time and work.

 

[SuperBee364]

I think you mean if you cant see it because you are not close enough or under the right lighting conditions which the answer would be yes.



Just because you have to be in the right light to spot a defect does not mean that it doesn't detract from the looks of the car... If light is beiung scattered (refracting) instead of reflecting back to you the potential beauty is not revealed.



Going by your rationale one could incorrectly say "I only see the swirl marks when looking at the paint under the direct sunlight so it's no big deal".. That would be an incorrect statement and is the same as what you are saying.



Swirl marks are swirl marks regardless of the color car and they degrade the optical appearance of a car just the same... Treating cars clearcoat differently based on color is not the way to achieve a stunning exterior appearance which is what the OP must want or he/she would not be here...

Huuuuge +1 to this. Defects, no matter what size they are, are what prevent gloss. Gloss is simply what happens when there is a lack of defects. Think of a telescope mirror. Why do they polish it highly? To get a uniform, defect free surface so light behaves the way it's supposed to. Same thing with paint. If there's a defect there, regardless of the size, it is detracting from the gloss.



Again, gloss is what happens when there is a lack of defects.

 

[GoudyL]

I think you mean if you cant see it because you are not close enough or under the right lighting conditions which the answer would be yes.



Just because you have to be in the right light to spot a defect does not mean that it doesn't detract from the looks of the car... If light is beiung scattered (refracting) instead of reflecting back to you the potential beauty is not revealed.

It's a white car, the unaided human visual system has only so much resolution. Once you drop below that resolving ability you are finished.



I'd hate to tell you how messy the car's paint is going to look under an electron microscope. Yet we don't goto all the effort involved in making silicon wafers perfectly flat.

Going by your rationale one could incorrectly say "I only see the swirl marks when looking at the paint under the direct sunlight so it's no big deal".. That would be an incorrect statement and is the same as what you are saying.

Since we are talking about a matter of opinion "it's no big deal", there is no way for you to declare it to be correct or incorrect. :cooleek:

Swirl marks are swirl marks regardless of the color car and they degrade the optical appearance of a car just the same... Treating cars clearcoat differently based on color is not the way to achieve a stunning exterior appearance which is what the OP must want or he/she would not be here...

I think this comes down to a difference in philosophy. My attitude is that I want the car to look as good as possible, as is consistent with it looking good for as long as possible.



Grinding away the paint (thereby making it thinner and causing it to fail sooner) to achive transient perfection is not consistent with that idea. Unless you keep the car in a garage 24/7 and never drive it, you will never be able to prevent all maring and swirling. OTH you can easily get it to the point where surface is defect free to given level of visual inspection. (e.g the 5 foot test).



White cars are nice, since they don't show paint defects as much, which means they tend to need less work to get them to the same level of visual quality. I'd spend more time doing the trim/tires because the visual contrast between the dark trim and white body will make the white paint seem that much brighter.

 

[Deep Gloss Auto Salon]

It's a white car, the unaided human visual system has only so much resolution. Once you drop below that resolving ability you are finished.



I'd hate to tell you how messy the car's paint is going to look under an electron microscope. Yet we don't goto all the effort involved in making silicon wafers perfectly flat.







Since we are talking about a matter of opinion "it's no big deal", there is no way for you to declare it to be correct or incorrect. :cooleek:









I think this comes down to a difference in philosophy. My attitude is that I want the car to look as good as possible, as is consistent with it looking good for as long as possible.



Grinding away the paint (thereby making it thinner and causing it to fail sooner) to achive transient perfection is not consistent with that idea. Unless you keep the car in a garage 24/7 and never drive it, you will never be able to prevent all maring and swirling. OTH you can easily get it to the point where surface is defect free to given level of visual inspection. (e.g the 5 foot test).



White cars are nice, since they don't show paint defects as much, which means they tend to need less work to get them to the same level of visual quality. I'd spend more time doing the trim/tires because the visual contrast between the dark trim and white body will make the white paint seem that much brighter.

I fundamentaly disagree with you on sevaral statments in your last post as well as other posts I have read of yours...