I'm impressed by xylion which was applied to my truck. One year and the water still sheets and beads like crazy. The paint always looks wet, feels smooth and the metallic just pops. Other than the stratch along the fender flare (where it was keyed). I'd say this truck looks like it just rolled out of the factory (with semi dirty tires cause I hate shiny tires on trucks lol).
Is GM ripping people off??
- Thread starter 06Accordx2
- Start date
MrSelfDestruct
New member
I don't think these products are nessesarily BAD... as I said easier I'm kinda impressed with the stuff we got. When the cars come back for "re-seal", ofter the water is still beading off during the wash. It's really up to the customer to bring it back when they are suppose to, and it will provide some sort of protection. I really don't know anything about the "warrantee" or even how often they are suppose to bring it back for re-paint seals. Maybe every 6mths I'm not sure. IMHO I think if someone is stupid enough that they don't know how to toss on a coat of wax every couple of months, spending some money on having a professional do it will at least prolong the life of the paint before it needs a major buff-job.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Yeah, as RJJ and others have mentioned, these poly-razamataz packages can be OK for some people.
A friend of ours with physical infirmities gets the package thrown in as "gimme" when she leases, has them do the (no cost) refresher when it's in for service. Her SUV always looks OK, better than most. She's been doing this for years and it works for her- no cost, no hassle. When the lease is up she does it all over again.
A friend of ours with physical infirmities gets the package thrown in as "gimme" when she leases, has them do the (no cost) refresher when it's in for service. Her SUV always looks OK, better than most. She's been doing this for years and it works for her- no cost, no hassle. When the lease is up she does it all over again.
osc4m said:
You're on the ball, then. Here in Japan, they've been ripping folks off with the same kind of nonsense for years (though the sealants are called "coatings" here); recently, some of the companies who offer this service have been taken to court, and those claims have been reduced, at least. Toyota is the last hold out, though they may be pressured into changing their tune in the near future - as far as I know, they still claim :doh 5-year protection
.If people take the time to read the fine print they'd realize that what they are buying is a paint maintenance contract. I've read a few of the dealer paint sealant warranties. What most claim is that "IF" you maintain the product they apply, your paint will be protected and will not need waxing. The contracts further state that you can bring your car back again and again for the duration of the warranty to have it maintained.
I know of at least one lady who pushed the contract to the breaking point where the dealer refunded her money just to get her to go away. The woman brought her car in monthly to have the paint serviced because she felt it needed it.
Read before you buy!
I know of at least one lady who pushed the contract to the breaking point where the dealer refunded her money just to get her to go away. The woman brought her car in monthly to have the paint serviced because she felt it needed it.
Read before you buy!
docker
New member
percynjpn said:
The dealership is counting on the customer NOT bringing the car back in for sealant refreshes. Additionally, at least with the product I had applied to my auto, the contract said it was ultimately up to the dealer whether or not it needed to be reapplied, and it was at the dealership's decretion, not based on a bead-test or shine-test or whatever. My bet is that customer would receive a wash and some QD the vast majority of times. Cost of doing so to the dealership would be nil.
docker
New member
percynjpn said:You're on the ball, then. Here in Japan, they've been ripping folks off with the same kind of nonsense for years (though the sealants are called "coatings" here); recently, some of the companies who offer this service have been taken to court, and those claims have been reduced, at least. Toyota is the last hold out, though they may be pressured into changing their tune in the near future - as far as I know, they still claim :doh 5-year protection
From Xzilon's site:
"X-6
XZILON EXTERIOR SEALANT 7OZ
The Ultimate Auto Protection - Xzilon Molecular Adhesion. Reduces frequency of car washing. Filters harmful ultraviolet rays. Five year coverage on new vehicles. Three year coverage on used vehicles. Resists bird dropping and graffiti. Resists water spotting. Resists industrial fallout. Resists rust spots. Resists acid rain. Resists tree sap. Reduces brake dust on wheels. Resists oxidation and fading."
Notice lack of the term "Guarantee" or "Protection" in favor of the term "Coverage".
I like the frequent use of the words "Resists". How does it resist the bird dropping on the car? do they mean sticking to the car?
06Accordx2
New member
docker said:
For that matter, normal waxing "resists" those very same things. Maybe not to the same degree, but if we're talking false or misleading claims here, it's the same.
I stand corrected from my original post, suggessting that GM was ripping folks off. I failed to distinguish GM from the dealer. Ken Dixon Chevy/Honda in Waldorf, Md didn't offer any such sealant protection on either of THREE Hondas I've purchased in the last six months.
DavidB said:
I would have expected that the person applying the sealant to be a dealer employee and that the time to apply it would be covered under his normal hourly wage. In that case, there would be no extra paid man hours; the only cost would be for the materials used. If he wasn't, then your calculations would apply.
In either case, if you don't plan to live up to your part of the bargain, don't charge someone hundreds of dollars for a service, and then refund the money when the cutomer demands what she paid for, following the letter of the agreement . Better yet, change future contracts and specify a maximum of 2-3 applications per year for the life of the warrantee.
MrSelfDestruct
New member
Yup... I just get paid my normal (crappy) wage per hour to apply paint sealant. I have no idea how much the materials (paint sealant) actually costs... but it's can't be that much.
the other pc
New member
That's not how a business is run. When you have employees you pay them. Whatever it is they're doing is costing you. If they're sealing somebody's car that's costing you. If they weren't you'd have them doing something else. If there isn't anything to do you let them go.percynjpn said:
No matter what you're paying them it costs you more than their wage to have them on staff. There's worker's comp, liability insurance, benefits (if any), the rent and utilities for their workspace, the percentage of other people's time they take up, supervisors, human resources, accounting, etc. That's what DavidB meant by "fully burdened cost."
If you have a high overhead organization it can cost you that $25/hr to keep a minimum wage employee on the payroll.
PC.
docker
New member
MrSelfDestruct said:
I've got it from a good source that each bottle of Xz... costs the dealership about $35, and it can treat 2 to 3 autos.
So, assume for materials $17 and 1 hour labor @$25 and the dealership cost is about $42. Typical asking price for the service is $400, and if the dealership assumes they are going to reapply this customer's sealant 4 times over the course of the 'coverage' period, then they'll accure the additional 3 applications.
In this scenario, the dealerships cost is 4x$42, or $168. Subtract that from the $400 and you have about $222 profit. However, the actual selling price can be exceptionally higher, as we've heard from some folk, therefore, the per vehicle profit may average well more than $222. I for one, did pay considerably more than that when I had my 1st install.
In reality, per the 2 dealerships I am familiar with that have used this product, they have a high return rate on the product due to improper installation. So, when you factor in the costs to cut off the product (there is no chemical removal process), plus refunding the full cost, the profit is substaintially reduced. This is why 1 of these dealerships have ceased offering it.
The defective installations are typically due to water spots being caught in the sealant, sap or bird spots under the sealant, etc.
docker
New member
xfire said:
Environmental Package??
MrSelfDestruct
New member
We used to use "Pro-Tech".. now we have a different company (can't find any info).
I'm assuming this is the product or a very similar product. 1 bottle can do 2-3 cars. It's quite abrasive and does a nice job cleaning the paint
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CarC...6QQihZ018QQcategoryZ50450QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
not exactly expensive...
I'm assuming this is the product or a very similar product. 1 bottle can do 2-3 cars. It's quite abrasive and does a nice job cleaning the paint
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CarC...6QQihZ018QQcategoryZ50450QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
not exactly expensive...
docker said:
This is what my contract says word for word.
Xzilon Molecular Adhesion: Granitize Products, Inc. hereby guarantees to the original new vehicle owner that the treated surface of their new vehicle will retain it's high luster and shine on the date of purchase and is enforceable from the date of purchase except where otherwise noted. Should, the original painted finish be damaged by weather-induced fading, oxidation or loss of gloss, water spotting, bird droppings, tree sap, acid rain or industrial fallout, Granitize products will repair such condition completely free of charge. Granitize Products reserves the right to attempt to repair any such damage through professional detailing prior to repainting any surface.
It doesn't have the word "resist" anywhere, not even the fine print. The fine print says it does not cover damage cause by road hazards, vandalism, collision, other natural causes: rust, modifications or alterations of the original factory paint. defective paint (i.e peeling or chipping of factory paint or clear coat; chips or scratches caused by everday use, or damage cause by neglect or abuse.
wannafbody
wannafbody
Based on David B's red dot 49 sample I think the argument that dealership paint sealants don't last is a non issue. Anything that has to be removed with a rotary buffer and polish is somewhat durable. For the average Joe who rarely washes his car these hi-tech sealants might not be a bad thing(still overpriced tho). But for a guy who will wash and wax his car regularly they are a waste of money.