Is Flawless Paint Under Halogen Possible?

C

cheeba

New member
I'm just getting into detailing for real and have been using my PC 7424 to try the following on my black '02 Audi TT:



Meguiar's #95 on PFW >> Meguiar's #83 on LC White >> Meguiar's #80 on LC White >> Klasse AIO on LC Black >> Klasse SG by hand x 2



Under normal garage lighting it is impossible to detect any flaws, and in outdoor lighting you can barely see anything, but under 1000w of halogen you can see tons of very minute scratches. Am I being too discerning? My local Meguiar's rep checked out my paint in daylight and thought it looked fine, and I was being too picky. It seems to me that the scratches form when dragging anything across the surface of the paint - even my MF towels. I can also drag my finger across and see them form.



I've only ever seen a proper paint correction in pictures, so it doesn't really show what the paint is like; if you were to blast these seemingly perfect finishes with 1000w of halogen and look at it from 2" away at the right angle, would imperfections still be detectable? I just want to ensure that I'm going all the way before I touch anyone's car who is not my own (friends and family).
 
Just so you know, M95 is NOT recommended for use on the DA. Some have used it with great success- but play at your own risk.



That said, I know you said it seems light wiping leaves damage- but are you 100% sure the defects you are seeing are those? Or is it possible they are the remnants of deeper defects never fully removed?



To answer your original question, though, yes- it is possible sometimes...but some paints are just too far gone to achieve true perfection. Your car is 7 years old! If you can get it so it looks great in the sun, who cares what it looks like under halogens? I don't know about you, but I don't drive around by halogens :cool:
 
Haha yeah, that was what the Meguiar's girl said! However, I am just trying to ensure that my process is sound, and I am doing a competent job, and not trying to get my car perfect. I guess I can just try on some paint that is newer (read: in better shape) and see how it comes out.



Being a total noob, I'm really not sure of anything - all I do know is that the paint looks flawless from 2 feet away, but you can see all sorts of stuff when you look at it from 2 inches away (even then, you have to have halogen on it and look from a certain angle). I just wanted to know if all these cars posted that look flawless, still look like that under a microscope.



We can't buy M105 in Canada, so I'm using M95. It seems to go on and come off clean, so I don't think I can get into too much trouble with a DA.
 
Okay, I think I'm good:



I checked out the paint in daylight and I can not detect a single flaw now! I think the micro-scratches I was seeing were from from me biting into the uncured SG; after I let it cure overnight, I'm not getting them anymore.



That said, this question still stands and I would like people's input on it: When you get the paint looking flawless, does it still look that way under 1000w of halogen?
 
Hi Cheeba,

I used to think perfect paint was impossible when I started out too, but micro scratches can be completely removed on most cars under 5 years old (even with the halogens).

You need to step up to a very fine finishing polish (like Ultrafina or PO85RD) and a pad with zero cut (blue, red, or black depending on mfgr.). The process is called "jeweling" the paint and there are a lot of articles if you do a search for the term.

I must warn you that this takes a lot of time and practice to learn, but you will love the results.

If you are thinking about going pro, it would also help to get a rotary polisher.



I hope this helps... Good luck :)
 
cheeba- Welcome to Autopia! Fellow Audi-owner here.



Yeah, you can get most vehicles utterly flawless under *any* lighting conditions, and IMO halogen isn't all that unforgiving (I see far more flaws under incandescents than under halogens and 100% under halogen often isn't good enough for me).



The exception to the above is RIDS (Random Isolated Deep Scratches) that can easily be too deep for safe removal.



Note that *IMO* you're not ready for the "jeweling"/burnishing stage; I don't do that until the paint is already flawless. IMO you need to determine where in the process you've dropped the ball (hope that expression didn't sound too harsh)...



If I can keep my '01 S8 good enough for UPP and my '02 MPV (think about that...a seven year old minivan used to haul the dogs year-round) good enough for KSG, then I'm pretty confident you can get your TT good enough to pass the halogen light test.



Of course, if it currently *does* pass inspection, then all is well and you can simply blow off all the above :D But if that marring rears its head under some weird lighting condition....well, we oughta be able to help you sort it out.
 
Thanks guys! It's reassuring to know that I wasn't just being too OCD - I figured there had to be other people like me out there :D In my garage, which is lit by 600w of incandescent, I cannot see any flaws at all; but, once I fire up the halogens, I can see the micro-marring.



No offense taken - I'm new and am probably doing everything incorrectly! I suspect that I'm not getting enough initial cut with the M95. Should the M95 on PFW cut out everything so that all that's left, other than RIDS, is the hazing from the process itself? I guess that would just look like light swirling?



I did have someone with some detailing experience tell me that the Audi clear is rock hard and might need a rotary to get really into it. I'll keep trying and report back the results - I would greatly appreciate more input once I do :)



S8 :2thumbs: Any mod's? I've got Unitronic Stage II, 3" turbo-back, coilovers, and RE-01R's on my TT.
 
Accumulator knows his stuff, and I'll admit my advice may have assumed too much as far as how good you've already gotten the paint finish... There are lots of experts here with tons of experience, and this is why forums are such good tools for self-improvement.



It would help if you could post a couple of pictures of your progress so far..
 
cheeba said:
..In my garage, which is lit by 600w of incandescent, I cannot see any flaws at all..
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Are you sure you don't mean *fluorescent* :think: I can't see anything under fluorescents but incandescents work great.



No offense taken - I'm new and am probably doing everything incorrectly! I suspect that I'm not getting enough initial cut with the M95. Should the M95 on PFW cut out everything so that all that's left, other than RIDS, is the hazing from the process itself? I guess that would just look like light swirling?
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I've never used M95. M105 finishes out *almost* readly-to-wax on Audi clear IME so maybe the M95 just isn't right for use via PC. No, I *don't* know where you get M105 up there :nixweiss

I did have someone with some detailing experience tell me that the Audi clear is rock hard and might need a rotary to get really into it.
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Yeah, it's very hard, and yeah, before M105 a rotary *was* the best approach. But 1Z Pasta Intensiv works well (if a lot less quickly) on it too, and with little (3.5-4") Purple Foamed Wool pads you *can* effect good correction on Audis via PC. Consider that you can't reach under door handles with a machine anyhow, and I've removed some nasty fingernail scratches from that area by hand countless times.



..S8 :2thumbs: Any mod's? I've got Unitronic Stage II, 3" turbo-back, coilovers, and RE-01R's on my TT.
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Nah, haven't even done the trans mod from the later years. I hardly ever drive it so I'm OK with it stock and there aren't all that many good mods for it AFAIK anyhow (nah, I don't want a louder exhaust, different wheels, etc.). I traded in a *heavily* modified 'vette for it and the truth is that I cover ground quicker in the sleathly sedan than I did in the much faster sportscar.



Well, I dunno if you'd call it a "mod" but I *have* debadged it, took off all the "S8" and "quattro" emblems and even the rings on the trunklid (leaving only the rings on the grille). Other people think it looks terribly boring this way, but I simply *love* the generic-silver-sedan look.



Your TT sounds cool, those are great cars to modify (in the same way my older turbo-quattros were).
 
Nope, I meant incandescent. I can't see anything when I shine a fluorescent on it either.



I can get M105 in Canada, but the M205 is not approved for sale here yet. I guess I should try the M105, rather than the M95, and just finish with the M80.



Yeah, not too many mod's for the S8, I was just asking. They're pretty sweet out of the box, so it's not like there's a real need for it. My TT is fun, but it will be even better when I go big-turbo and am putting down 400wHP :D
 
cheeba said:
Nope, I meant incandescent. I can't see anything when I shine a fluorescent on it either...
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Wel, that just goes to show how something might not work as well for somebody else now matter how well it works for me.

I can get M105 in Canada, but the M205 is not approved for sale here yet. I guess I should try the M105, rather than the M95, and just finish with the M80.
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Or...try finishing with something like 1Z High Gloss. I really like #80 but for some reason I've gotten away from using it on the Audis (sure not a bad choice though).



Yeah, not too many mod's for the S8, I was just asking. They're pretty sweet out of the box, so it's not like there's a real need for it. My TT is fun, but it will be even better when I go big-turbo and am putting down 400wHP :D
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Well, my S8 would be a lot sweeter with the new S8's V10 :D Not that I'd really get there any faster though...



Heh heh, watch you don't modify that TT so much that it's not fun any more ;)
 
a flawless paint job is so hard to get! it takes years of practice get! as a beginner iw ould be more worried about crrect procedure more. in time it will happen. good lucck!
 
wannafbody said:
If you really want to see defects park under a sodium light at the Mall or gas station.
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Yeah...those were always my concern, and what motivated me to get my incandescent-light inspection figured out.



bufferbarry said:
...a flawless paint job is so hard to get! it takes years of practice get!
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Well, a flawless finish like *YOU* get on beat-up drivers sure is something that'll take years to figure out :D Getting a newer/not-too-bad vehicle corrected to the ~90-some-% point oughta be a little more doable for mere mortals.



Heh heh, that Chrysler you did kinda haunts me...what an incredible job that was!
 
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