Iron X worth it for surface prep?

[autoaesthetica]

Problem with it is not its effectiveness or lack of or whatever, its the fact it only seeks out 1 type of metal - iron.



There are more than just ferrous types of fallout on vehicles... .

 

[Xilleration]

Problem with it is not its effectiveness or lack of or whatever, its the fact it only seeks out 1 type of metal - iron.



There are more than just ferrous types of fallout on vehicles... .

Not true. I have effectively used it on a car with total zinc contamination.



Iron X and Iron X soap gel is ideal for cars for performance brake systems. Brakedust gets all over paint, not just on wheels - especially if you have hot-hatchbacks. I use Iron X and Tar X as twin decontamination products. The last car I used them on and clay-barred after, the clay bar came up completely clean after.



When metallic particles begin galvanic corrosion into the paint, then you will need to use it maybe two or three times. It depends on how far the contamination runs in the paint, but the first blast should get rid of the majority of "large" particles and the second/ third purifies the staining from rust.



Wolf's is less effective than Iron X. Its sort of the weaker bulk-buy version of the product, I think.



I wouldn't compare it to the AI ABC decon. Product B is fantastic and removes such a broad range of contaminants that it is in a different category. I removed dried in cement powder with it a few weeks ago with amazing ease. But if I solely want to do metallic decon, especially on a car with high performance brakes, then Iron X is the very best product out there and that is why it suits "everyday" decon needs better.



If its a sunny day, and the car risks drying, then I spray the Iron X and then follow up after a few mins with IX Soap Gel to make a wet foam with good dwell time. If you have really bad deposits of brakedust on your wheels, then there is the new Iron X Paste which is a gel that gives you a direct hit of concentrated IX right on the surface. Its fantastic. Brakedust just floats off after a few minutes.



Hope that helps the discussion.



KaPow.

 

[autoaesthetica]

Zinc is an unbelievably reactive metal as you know... the term galvanic is preferential to metal(Like the coatings) whereas Ferrous material(Iron) oxidizes. There isn't enough metallic material in OEM paints for settled ferrous particles to galvanically corrode.



Numerous occasion in demo for a few people I have sprayed these IronX and Ironcut products on bare Al and bare Zn left for upwards of an hour by which time it was dry, came back and saw 0 reaction - not even a hint of an etch. The controls for these were water.. and then for demo purpose, phosphoric acid.



Similar reductions potentials but perhaps different real world result with whatever is in the product?



Where on earth would you get "total zinc contamination"? Can you post a pic or 2?





The other issue is simply strength of this product on something like completely reacted carbometallics, like those found in braking pad materials. Once everything has undergone its "transformation" in the presence of heat, moisture etc... anything docile reacting with the metallic portion becomes almost useless, and certainly nearly cost ineffective.





We stocked this product for about a year... but I can tell you on many ferrous stains, IronX did not react well enough to remove it from white paints and wheel finishes... a mild acid(paint safe of course) was absolutely needed for the removal of stain.

 

[Accumulator]

I've used my IronX Soap (yeah, should've bought the other one ) on the S8's wheels. Now these are in *GREAT* shape, pretty much uhm... at least as good as showroom-new. Clean and smooth, zero rust-blooms, no issues at all.



I quit IronXing them after the fourth/fifth application still ran purple. "How often am I supposed to do this [stuff]?!?" and all that.



If I cared enough I'd try some "B" on 'em too and really make it an experiment, but this is one of those cases of "not looking for problems you don't know you have" that I'm always cautioning people against and I just want to get the job over with (nutty me, redoing stuff that's already virtually perfect ).

 

[Bill D]

I've used my IronX Soap (yeah, should've bought the other one ) on the S8's wheels. Now these are in *GREAT* shape, pretty much uhm... at least as good as showroom-new. Clean and smooth, zero rust-blooms, no issues at all.



I quit IronXing them after the fourth/fifth application still ran purple. "How often am I supposed to do this [stuff]?!?" and all that.

Hmmm... Given that, because I'm certain those wheels are pretty much as close to sterile as reasonably possible, it sounds like we need a control, a brand spanking new, OEM, never used wheel to spray it on and see if it still bleeds color, just to be sure it's not simply reacting with the nature of the composition of any wheel itself. I doubt it would, but just to be over the top certain, is all I'm thinking.

 

[autoaesthetica]

I've used my IronX Soap (yeah, should've bought the other one ) on the S8's wheels. Now these are in *GREAT* shape, pretty much uhm... at least as good as showroom-new. Clean and smooth, zero rust-blooms, no issues at all.



I quit IronXing them after the fourth/fifth application still ran purple. "How often am I supposed to do this [stuff]?!?" and all that.



If I cared enough I'd try some "B" on 'em too and really make it an experiment, but this is one of those cases of "not looking for problems you don't know you have" that I'm always cautioning people against and I just want to get the job over with (nutty me, redoing stuff that's already virtually perfect ).

Try some B with a good agitation and 5+ minute dwell time before that, then IX them and see what happens. Hot braking material can be a "B"

 

[Accumulator]

Hmmm... Given that, because I'm certain those wheels are pretty much as close to sterile as reasonably possible, it sounds like we need a control, a brand spanking new, OEM, never used wheel to spray it on and see if it still bleeds color, just to be sure it's not simply reacting with the nature of the composition of any wheel itself. I doubt it would, but just to be over the top certain, is all I'm thinking.

Actually, I have a new wheel for the Crown Vic. When I don't have anything better to do (yeah, that's a joke :chuckle: ) I'll see what the IronX does on it.



On th S8 wheels (and I've only done the fronts so far) it did get *better* with each application, but I'd expected a complete lack of indication after a few goes.

 

[autoaesthetica]

We use IX as an indicator, not as the solution. Buffalo rust blooms are ridiculous sometimes..



I can tell you the one thing I always noticed in posts, writeups etc.. is that people do NOT say anything about "I did a 2nd application to check" or "I followed up again to be sure" leading me to speculate that if they DID, they might find more contamination OR they have true faith in a product which after reading this thread should make others reconsider...



but as I mentioned, these types of chemicals are indicators for us.

 

[Bill D]

They ought to start selling Iron X in gallons-plus pretty soon because it's pretty easy to use most ( if not all) of one bottle on one (mild to moderately dirty by Autopian standards) set of wheels and possibly still not totally decontaminate them. Gets expen$ive

 

[Accumulator]

Try some B with a good agitation and 5+ minute dwell time before that, then IX them and see what happens. Hot braking material can be a "B"

Yeah, I'm the guy who usually clays while "B" is dwelling, but the S8's wheels aren't getting anything like that (at least not this time). I mean...these things were *SO* clean before I even started on 'em! I'm amazed that any contamination had even penetrated all the LSP, let alone that some is apparently still there.



If...oops, I mean "when" I play around with that new Crown Vic wheel, I will try "B" if IronX alone doesn't appear to do the job.



BTW, I myself sometimes wish they'd make "B" a bit stronger, or at least offer a second version of it, but I suppose somebody (like maybe some guy whose Audis have aluminum trim ) would have an "oops!" and blame them for it.

 

[autoaesthetica]

The FK SIRR is stronger IME with them both, I would like FK to make a gellish like B step like the Valugard.



I am also a clay while B dwelling person. When these products were first stocked by us, it became very quickly apparent that you NEED to "knock" and "bump" the contamination out of its spot for it to be completely dissolved and/or released.



Way too much "spray and rinse" hype going into this stuff.... it doesn't work like that people.

 

[Bill D]

Yes, let's not forgot to allow the product ample time to dwell, as well as agitating it with wheel brushes. When I tried out Iron X, I washed the wheels conventionally thoroughly first, then applied Iron X, let it dwell, agitated, then rinsed only after I thought it stayed on the wheel long enough, only then would it be time to do a second round. Kinda brought memories back to a process that got me hooked on detailing--when I restored crud and rust contaminated wire wheel covers back to their original state with an old acid type of product that was available at that time. After all that, lets not forget, got to reseal the wheels too. This entire process from dirty wheels to, decontaminated, sealed wheels is a detail job within a detail job in it of itself.

 

[Ron Ketcham]

SIRR, when I came up with that name for #883, Floyd turned his head like dog when you fart around them!!

What? So I explained, everything needs a name, Floyd, people want names, not numbers.

Steel, Iron, Rust Remover=SIRR

It is sulfuric acid with a small percentage of phosphuric acid and was originally clear, the same as the #583 Wheel Acid (the bad hydrofluric with some sulfuric), so I was concerned that some might grab the wrong bottle since they looked the same and users poured out of the gallon bottle into dispensor bottles, not always marking them.

Result, yellow dye in the #883 and a hot pink in the #583, no formula change.

This is where it gets interesting, people are creatures of habit.

They had been clear for years, the only change was the dye being added.

My old time distributor in Phoenix sold a ton of #583 and immediately called me complaining the the "new" #583 was not as strong as the old "clear" product!

His perception was his, and it took a trip over there, to show him there was no difference only a change for safety concerns.

When I was able at ValuGard to do what was right for people, no high percentages of dangerous acids in anything, and certainly "NO HYDROFLURIC ACID" in any product.

Grumpy

 

[Bill D]

SIRR, when I came up with that name for #883, Floyd turned his head like dog when you fart around them!!

:funnypost



You must've been a riot to work with in the office day in, day out!

What? So I explained, everything needs a name, Floyd, people want names, not numbers.

Steel, Iron, Rust Remover=SIRR

Indeed! Why must so many things,whether it be cleaners or names of cars, constantly be named with numbers in modern times? The days of Bel- Air, Mustang, El Dorado-- those are names ( and vehicles) of substance!





And indeed, people are creatures of habit--got to study them well and be one step ahead of them in having what they want

 

[Accumulator]

I'm pretty much ignoring products that contain hydrofluric acid.



Despite my "wish they made "B" stronger", I'm also leery of using really potent acids on aluminum wheels...bare aluminum doesn't always respond well even if you do neutralize things afterwards and "real world wheels" often have places where the bare metal is exposed.



But I'm thinking that maybe I oughta pick up some of the SIRR some time. Back when Troy (is that right? I forget...) was distributing FK stuff he made such a big deal out of it being "safer" than "B" that a) I was put off by his AI/VG bashing and b) I figured SIRR wouldn't be as effective.

 

[Bill D]

I was put off by the bashing too. I researched ABC thoroughly before buying and I didn't buy until I came across a situation where I needed to have it. Since I was armed with good, more or less unbiased info about it, I felt best about it and I used it, and it performed how I hoped. :bigups



I personally wouldn't consider SIRR because my present needs far from dictate possibly needing it. The circumstances would have to radically change. But if they do, I'll be better armed with info about it beforehand and that will lead to the best outcome if I have to use it.

 

[Ron Ketcham]

SIRR is a ton more agressive!

Time and time again had to answer complaints about it "wrinkling paint" when applied in direct sunlight and allowed to dwell longer than 10 minutes, or improper washing and rinsing of the surfaces.

These were usually at port operations or large auction recon facilities, whistle would blow for lunch or end of shift, time to go!

Ate up a lot clears that way.

I never knew this "Troy", but sounds like he bought into whatever Floyd or his daughter told him.

I did to, for a while.

He convinced me that the two acids were "buffered" so that they did not harm vehicles or the person using them.

A little research on hydrofluric told me much different.

Wonder that I have any bone marrow left, let alone lungs due to my listening to him.

What finally got me checking on real facts, was when noticed that my finger nails were turning yellow.

He always said the OSHA warnings were just something for goverment people to earn their paychecks.

Never cautioned me about a respirator or chemical proof gloves, etc when handling either of the products.

Grumpy

 

[Bill D]

Sheesh! Try getting away with that today! There'd be no more FK, lots of fines,even jail time too for the offenders I bet!

 

[Xilleration]

Where on earth would you get "total zinc contamination"? Can you post a pic or 2?



We stocked this product for about a year... but I can tell you on many ferrous stains, IronX did not react well enough to remove it from white paints and wheel finishes... a mild acid(paint safe of course) was absolutely needed for the removal of stain.

Mike, thanks for the reply. I'm afraid the pics are of very poor quality due it being a pretty stormy day. Don't have the California sunshine here in Ireland and the pics were more for personal record than for show...



Where on earth would you get total zinc contamination? You should ask where IN earth would you get total Zinc contamination. In a Zinc Mine is the answer!! I used Iron X soap gel for the job. Worked a treat.



Sorry, you might need to squint at some of these.... lol

I know you don't put bottles on paint, but this was to demonstrate how rough the surface is. The bottle is not sliding anywhere in a hurry!!

The HiLux got a coat of CQuartz before it left and it looked very sharp.

Anyway, back to the discussion... I don't know how you couldn't find the Iron X effective. As you can see, a white vehicle came up perfect. I get in a lot of Golf GTI's and they are always contaminated at the rear by brakedust. IX just shifts it like its dandruff! When did you buy it last? Perhaps the current version is more powerful, but like you, I've been using it over a year and I wouldn't be without it as I always found it extremely effective.



Spray and wipe - yes, if used as a regular maintenance product. And yes if you need something to shift stubborn brakedust. Just leave it dwell a little longer. If it is very bad contamination, then as I said previously, try IX Paste.



There are no miracle products out there and some wheels will always be fubar even for acids, never mind Iron X. But Iron X is a step in the right direction from the wheel cleaners that are simply aggressive, alkaline shampoos. I certainly would not dismiss it as a professional detailer.

 

[Accumulator]

I personally wouldn't consider SIRR because my present needs far from dictate possibly needing it. The circumstances would have to radically change..

-AND-

SIRR is a ton more agressive!

Well...both the Tahoe and the Crown Vic were in real "before-picture condition" when I got 'em home and I failed to do a proper decon because [insert litany of excuses here ]. Yeah, I'm the guy who can happily live with surface-rusted paintchips and so on, but some day I might want to fix those dog-haulers up properly.