Iron X vs Sonax Full Effect Wheel Cleaner

C

craigw133

New member
Hello all,

As you can see, I am very new to this forum. I've been lurking around this website as a whole for quite some time now, but I haven't really looked into the forums until a buddy of mine suggested I should. I have read a few posts in an attempt to find some answers to my question, but it seems as though each is taylored to his or her individual needs, much like how my question is. Seeing how many of the members here are very helpful and knowledgeable when it comes to taking care of a car's exterior, I am hoping that one of you, if not most of you, can point me in the right direction.

Basically, I own a 2002 Lexus IS300 which I have had since November of last year. It is a dark colored vehicle, namely, Graphite Gray Pearl (like a carbon, dark grayish metallic color). About the beginning of January, I noticed that my car was beginning to show some hairline swirl-marks, or scratches. In desperation, I headed to the website I frequent the most, IS300.net, in an attempt to get some help. I took the advice of some of the members and tried out 3M's Imperial Hand Glaze and some P21S Concourse Carnauba Wax (1 coat of each). The results I got were amazing. I was very happy with what turned out to be, a better-than-new looking finish. All the swirls and hairline scratches were gone. Unfortunately, that finish lasted only for a little while until the lines were back again :( . I did everything I could to take care of the finish from using 100% cotton towels, micro fiber towels, the whole nine yards! I followed the directions in the Details Details Details section to wipe from front to back ONLY, using some QuickDetailing spray after the wax (Meguire's). I use a sheep skin mit to wash my car and use car wash soap. I use The Absorber to dry the car. Now, the scratches that are visible under the sunlight are no longer swirl marks, but rather lines running from front to back. I want to get rid of the swirls again, but I don't want to use the 3M Imperial Hand Glaze again since it may strip away the clear coat and paint too soon.

After all that work for nothing, I figured I try a different approach. Someone on the IS300.net message boards mentioned something about Klasse All-In-One and Klasse Sealant Glaze. He swears by it and recommends that I try it. I am also considering a clay bar to prep the surface. In a nutshell, here are the products that I would like to try on my car:

1. Griot's Clay Bar
2. Klasse All-In-One
3. Klasse Sealant Glaze
4. P21S Concourse Carnauba Wax

My question to you guys/gals is, <strong class='bbc'>is this combo the safe way to go?[/b] I know that the Sealant Glaze will just "cover" the scratch marks and not make them go away entirely, but like I said before, I am hesitant in using the 3M polish again in an effort to preserve my clear coat/paint as long as I can. <strong class='bbc'>Also, is it safe to put a coat of P21S wax after the the Sealant Glaze? If so, how long should I wait before putting a coat of wax on top of the Glaze? How do I preserve the "just waxed" look? Can I use Meguire's Quick Detail spray as a lubricant for the clay bar?[/b]

And lastly, <strong class='bbc'> does anyone know of a website where I can order Klasse products for a reasonable price?[/b]

Sorry this post was so long, but I am desperate to find the help I need. All opinions, insight, and criticism are welcomed and please feel free to let me know what you think I should do for my paint (washing, detailing, etc). Thanks in advance, and have a great day :).

Matt
 
I think your plan sounds really good. You could put more than one coat of SG on if you wanted to. Any carnuba wax will look amazing on top of Klasse.

Klasse Sealant Glaze cures fully in about 12 hours. You could apply a coat of wax on top of it just about any time though. For best results, I would suggest waiting a full day.

There are a ton of places you could go for Klasse. CMA (our noble sponsor) gives we Autopians a discount occasionaly. I would check the site now, actually, because they also are having weekly specials on products and I can't remember if Klasse has been done yet. :up

Welcome to the forum! That was a well thought out post. :xyxthumbs
 
First off, the 3M IHG will NEVER take off your clear coat or paint. IHG is nothing more than a blend of oils and fillers, no abrasive content. What you are seeing is that the IHG and P21S are washing off of your car reshowing the swirls that IHG may have covered. IHG is a temporary way to boost shine and cover the lightest of swirls, but it very quickly washes off.

You have a good plan of action which will be a lot more permanant than IHG and P21S alone. Start with a good claying and yes you can use Meguiar's QD as the lube. Then apply one or two coats of AIO, then follow with SG. Most like to apply up to 3 to 5 layers of SG before coating with a wax. After you're satisfied with your SG layering, apply P21S as the topper. This is a completely safe plan and many here do the exact same thing.

I get good prices on Klasse or whatever else I might want at www.motorhead.net They're a few bucks cheaper on products and shipping is usually cheaper too.
 
It sounds like those scratches (front to back) are mirroring your washing or drying. Please make sure you use only high quality MF or 100% cotton washmitts and towels for washing and drying, and detailing. The absorber is ok too. I am not a big fan of sheepskin washmitts.........

3M IHG is only a very temporary fix. It fills the swirls in with oils, and the carnuba topper adds some durability to the system.

KLASSE will last longer than P21S on your car. SG has some swirl filling properties, and I would skip the AIO treatment on your car, as a cleaner/wax one step product is overkill in my opinion on brand new paint if prepped properly. Also, I would limit the use of abrasives on your car....in removing scratches and swirls, they add more (finer) scratches......kind of a catch 22. If you have deep scratches and absolutely need to use them, well that is one thing, but don't make a habbit of using them on a continual basis.

I would dawn wash your car to strip down the carnuba, and then use a mild paint cleanser like P21S or Pinnacle. If you have your heart set on KLASSE, put a few coats of SG on and see how that hides the scratches. Since SG is more durable than IHG, the swirls should not come back as quickly if you don't put new ones in.

Great color choice on your car....my steel grey bimmer is almost the same color........

http://www.fototime.com/13CD77BF4138434/orig.jpg

Hope this helps.......
 
Second, you sure do ask alot of questions. ;) Just teasing, as this is THE place to ask.



While your post is lengthy, and does contain numerous questions, I'll jump in where I can:



First - ditch that sheepskin wash mit. The use of that wash mit was the first thing that I "bumped" on in regard to your methods. From what you have mentioned, I would say that that wash mit is the culprit of many of those hairline scratches that you are seeing. A safer alternative would be a 100% cotton wash pad or mit. I have read too many sad stories of those sheepskin wash mits creating hairline scratches. The 2 bucket wash method would also serve you well.



You were justified in being disappointed with the performance of 3M Imperial Hand Glaze - it's loaded with "fillers" and the results are only temporary as you had noted. After a good rainfall or washing, that's it, the scratches are back. :( Topping it with a carnauba would probably look great, but would not extend it's life, as carnaubas are short-lived themselves. What the 3M IHG will not do, is strip away your clear coat/base coat as you had mentioned you were worried about.



In regard to your most recent thoughts on how to address this, there is nothing wrong with claying the car if you feel that it is in need of such treatment. It's considered proper paint prep. My personal experience with Klasse SG is that it's "filling properties" are okay - not superb, but okay. Others here may feel differently.



There is absolutely nothing wrong with adding a carnauba over Klasse. The addition of a wax over Klasse will increase the depth and warmth of your paint. As stated, I would also wait 24 hours before waxing. If you are going to wax, you will want a Quick Detail Spray that is compatible with your top coat. Both Meguiar's Mist & Wipe and Meguiar's Final Inspection contain no wax, so they will not enhance the carnauba. Personally, I do not like the Meguiar's QD sprays, as I feel they are of poor quality, but there are other's here that do like them. For use with a clay bar, though, the Meguiar's QD spray should be fine.



Some QD Sprays that contain carnauba are One Grand Show Off, Pinnacle Crystal Mist, Eimann Fabrik Clear Pearl. I really like the EF Clear Pearl, it's a great product.



And as stated, Klasse products can be purchased from Classic Motoring Accessories (see the top of this page for their link. They are a great company to deal with).



Good luck with the car; while these hairline scractches that you see can be tricky to deal with, just a few changes in products and application methods and you should be on your way to improvement.
 
Wow! Nice to see some replies in a matter of minutes. No wonder my buddy recommended this forum :xyxthumbs !



Thanks to all who have taken the time to drop some knowledge on a clueless noob like myself.



So, with all said and done, how often should I do this polish/wax routine? And how often is it safe to wash with Dawn? And, should I wash the car after I clay it since there's going to be Meguire's QD spray all over it? Thanks again guys/gals. I can already see that the people on this board are friendly (unlike most message boards) and I will be learning alot of things soon! :up
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by four20 [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Wow! Nice to see some replies in a matter of minutes. No wonder my buddy recommended this forum !

Thanks to all who have taken the time to drop some knowledge on a clueless noob like myself.

So, with all said and done, how often should I do this polish/wax routine? And how often is it safe to wash with Dawn? And, should I wash the car after I clay it since there's going to be Meguire's QD spray all over it? Thanks again guys/gals. I can already see that the people on this board are friendly (unlike most message boards) and I will be learning alot of things soon! [/b]</blockquote>
I wouldn't clay more than once a year. Even though I'm not convinced of its harm to your paint, I don't see the need to strip all your sealants off every year. If you want to switch from Zaino to Klasse, or something like that, then a dawn wash would be a good idea. Otherwise, just stick to the regular car wash. :up

Definatly wash the car after you clay. There is a little bit of haze left over and maybe some pieces of clay. You will totally want to wash it just to make it squeaky clean. (Odd term, that. If it was really clean then it wouldn't squeak at all, huh?)

I wax about every other week. I like keeping it looking fresh. I'm sort of in the habit now and I have the time so its ok. When summer hits I might stretch it out into 3 weeks between because I get busier with other people's cars. If you are going to be laying down a sealant like Zaino, Klasse, or Blackfire (to name a few) then you want to remember that you can't layer sealant on wax. Be sure that you are satisfied with the layers you have before you put on the wax. You can layer wax forever if you want.

Good luck with the project. :xyxthumbs I hope you enjoy it. Ask us anything that you need to know to make sure it goes well.
 
I prefer to polish on an "as needed" basis. I'm typically always looking for hairline scratches that are in need of remedy. Using a foam pad and a very mild product, I'll address imperfections as I find them. Washing techniques as well as applicators/towels used, will also play a part in the appearance of imperfections.



In regard to waxing, you'll need to keep in mind that waxes evaporate and lack durability and will therefore need to be applied more often. If you are going to go the sealant and then wax route, build up your sealant layers until you are pleased with what you see, and then add your wax. Adding sealant after you have already put down your wax will be ineffective, as the sealant will not bond. A sealant does not require a wax topper, that is soley up to you and the "look" that you are trying to achieve. Typically speaking, a wax will add depth and warmth to your finish, while a sealant adds reflectivity. If at some point you decide that you would like to add more Klasse, then you'll simply need to wash the finish with Dawn to remove the wax...after that you can add more sealant.



As far as the Dawn wash, most here would say that once, maybe twice per year is okay, but beyond that it's not recommended.



And lastly - yes, I would wash the car after claying.
 
One more thing (even though it may not be the last :p ), I noticed all of you mentioned to put several layers of SG on before I put on the wax. My question is, how long in between applications of the SG should I wait before putting on the next layer? Thanks again...your help is greatly appreciated :).
 
For best results you should wait at least 12 hours. I'm not saying that I haven't put on more SG with only 2 hours of cure time, but you will get better results with 12. I would stop after 5 coats of SG though. I had over 12 on my car when I stopped. 5 didn't look all that different than 12 so there isn't any sense in spending the time and product on it. :xyxthumbs
 
Good Lord! 12 Hours between coats?! So if I'm planning on putting 5 coats of SG on, that means that I won't be able to drive my car for about a week or so! :eek:



Is it that big of a difference to wait from 2 hours to 12? I guess in the long run, it'll be worth it though :xyxthumbs
 
With a sealant you can build up the coats over a period of time. Over a series of weekends. Or there are some sealant that have accelerators which reduce the time you have to wait between coats. Zanio has a accelerator which reduces the wait time.
 
I just put an extra coat on every time I washed it. I washed it on Saturday and Sunday until I achieved the number of coats I wanted. Its not a quick process but its worth it. It only took a couple weeks to get it all done. 4 or 5 coats is sort of the limit I would go on a car again. I just kept layering it on untill I got my PPG to put over the top. Then I just switched to puting a coat of that on every week. :D
 
How do you like the PPG? Your car is white, correct? I am thinking about trying the PPG after the Klasse is on, but wasn't sure how it looks.



In my opinion, it is very difficult to achieve depth with white paint, simply due to the nature of the color. I do believe that reflectivity is something that can be worked on when it comes to white, although it will never reflect like a black finish.



So I guess what I'm asking is...is there really a difference between a white finish with Klasse only and one with Klasse/PPG?



Thanks in advance. :)
 
There is such a difference with the PPG and Klasse. The Klasse gives a reflection that is out of this world. Literaly I have to wear sunglasses when working on the car in sun because it is so bright. Snowblindess comes to mind. The pics in my sig are pretty good examples of Klasse and PPG. The Klasse made the car bright and reflective but the PPG made it absolutly glow. Really impressive.

102-0271_IMG.JPG


Souveran is even better. Not only do I get a glow but I also get a reflection that is unbelievable. Especially on white. You know how hard it is to get white to reflect.

Hoodshine.JPG


White is a pretty selfish color. It just absorbs color and never gives any of it back. I guess that is why I'm so impressed with Klasse and Pinnacle. Blackfire gives really good reflection too. Blackfire was like Klasse with a layer of wax already. Really good stuff either way though.
 
Wow! Now that's what I call SHINE! Thanks again for your help guys...silly me thought that I couldn't drive my car during applications and forgot that you can put on the SG layer after layer over time :p But hey...I'm n00b, what do you expect? ;)
 
In reading this there is one more suggestion that I might make. During this process, make sure that the scratches and swirls are gone or diminished to the point where you are satisfied. If you end up putting coats on SG and carnuba on a car that still has swirls underneath, you won't be happy. So at each stage make sure that you are happy with the clarity of the paint. Because, you will be doing progressively less abrasive (swirl-fixing) processes.



If you are not happy with the clarity, come back and ask more questions. You'll then get a whole host of action items to clear nagging swirls. These guys are never lacking in ways to make you spend more time and money on the detailing...:D:D
 
arcticwhite,



I like the shine of PPG, but I would probably only use it on a garage queen. The durability of the stuff is pretty bad....like maybe around 2 weeks or less on a daily driver.
 
Thanks for posting those photos of a white finish with Klasse & PPG. :xyxthumbs It's nice to have "visual aides".



Showroom: I know what you mean, waxes are never really great for durability. I just thought that if it added some depth to white, I'd be willing to put in the extra effort. :) I've actually never owned a white vehicle before, so this is all pretty new to me.
 
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