Ipa 105/205

[wannafbody]

Because 105 isn't a diminishing abrasive it stands to reason that after a IPA wipedown some compounding haze or micromarring will remain. The same may hold true for 205 on soft paints. The solution may be to try a different finishing polish.

 

[Envious Eric]

thats why I was thinking 80 might be a suitable followup to 105 instead of 205 - same cut, but diminishing abrasives and a slightly wetter look IMO



but if you went with 205 white pad, then FPII/white or blue pad might do just a touch better followup job...on some paints...



but if you wanted to stick with a two step, and not a 3 step, 105 then 80...anyone tried it out? I will on a mercedes sliver E-class on wednesday, but with it being silver, IDK

 

[Lumadar]

So how do you explain the fact that I just finished out as flawless as one can possibly get with M105 and M205 on uber soft Infiniti paint? Finished out like a charm...

I used IPA and glass cleaner wipe downs, AND had nearly 3 full weeks from the time I polished to the time I re-washed and waxed. It only had UQW for those 3 weeks. Owner also did 4-5 drive-through touchless car washes that use harsh chemicals that strip waxes.

 

[David Fermani]

Lumadar - Why use glass cleaner? Have you ever experienced ANY filling with 105 &/or 205?

 

[stiffdogg06]

Lumadar - Agreed. I did a 2008 Infiniti G35 last week and used M205 on a white LC Flat pad. Did an IPA wipedown and still was just as good. I will be down to see the car again Friday.

 

[Greg Nichols]

Lumadar



Rather than say "how can YOU explain" I posted this wanting to know what I'm doing that might be causing this. You are a MEGS Pro, so can you please explain? I just want to get to the bottom of this. So please share all you can to help resolve this.



Cheers,

GREG

 

[imported_shine]

Great post Rick, thanks... it's good to hear that one of the Big Guns is having the same experiences/problems with 205.



In addition to the filling, I'm also having difficulties getting 205 to finish down well. Hard or soft paint doesn't matter; after an IPA wipedown, I'm left with either holograms (on hard paint) or compounding swirls ( on soft paint). I've tried everything I know, and I'm still having the same problems. Most of the time, I can get 105 to finish down better than 205. My results look just about identical to Greg's post IPA wipedown pic. I still haven't used 205 enough with a DA to form an opinion on DA/205 results, but with the rotary, I simply cannot get 205 to finish well at all.



I'm getting much better results with Menzerna Final Finish in this polish category. I've been able to get it to finish down as well as 106FF.

Has anyone had similar experiences with UC / Swirl-X? I KNOW Swirl-X isn't officially rotary-approved but I could not get it to finish down without some faint buffer trails (only visible on a sunny day) with a black LC pad on GM paint.



Lumadar- I'm not doubting you but in those pictures the sky is quite cloudy which hinders the ability of the sun to do its revealing of light defects, IME.

 

[Tim Lingor]

Morning Greg,



Let's see if we can figure this out! Like I mentioned to you on TID, I have found that applying M205 with moderate to heavy pressure throughout the buffing cycle including the last pass, seems to work much better for me with the new SMAT's abrasives in M105/M205.



The other thing that seems to work, and while it is not recommended by Meguiar's is to use the G-110 on speed 6 in cases where a slower speed has not worked sufficiently. Normally I try and use the finishing polish at around speed 3-5 on the G-110 to finish out the paint. But in a few cases, I found that actually increasing the speed all the way up to speed 6 did make a big difference. This higher DA speed also helps to explain why on certain paints, I get better results using M205 with the rotary polisher than I do with the DA.



Like I also mentioned, I have found that it is very critical to use a clean pad with the new SMAT's. If you are using a Meguiar's W-9207 Finishing Pad, be sure to clean it after every panel. This is critical and without going into detail is one of the things Kevin Brown will bring up in his pending paper ( I was one of the proof readers). With the new SMAT's I switch out to clean pads for the same step way more often than I do with the traditional diminishing abrasives. So for an average size car, I will now use at least 3-4 pads per detailing step, maybe more. This last point I have found has made the biggest difference of all. If you tend to use the same pad, even if you clean it after every panel, because the new abrasives do not break down per se, a saturated pad with excess product could be a cause of the hazing you are experiencing.



Finally, some paints are just difficult to master. Many times, after all of my polishing steps and products of various brands get used, I sometimes have to use a unique method. For example, on some paints, no matter how I tried, I could not get the paint to finish out with the DA. But with the rotary it came out flawless. :xyxthumbs



Give the above a try and then report back. Hopefully we can get this figured out!!



Tim

 

[gmblack3]

Morning Greg,



Let's see if we can figure this out! Like I mentioned to you on TID, I have found that applying M205 with moderate to heavy pressure throughout the buffing cycle including the last pass, seems to work much better for me with the new SMAT's abrasives in M105/M205.



The other thing that seems to work, and while it is not recommended by Meguiar's is to use the G-110 on speed 6 in cases where a slower speed has not worked sufficiently. Normally I try and use the finishing polish at around speed 3-5 on the G-110 to finish out the paint. But in a few cases, I found that actually increasing the speed all the way up to speed 6 did make a big difference. This higher DA speed also helps to explain why on certain paints, I get better results using M205 with the rotary polisher than I do with the DA.



Like I also mentioned, I have found that it is very critical to use a clean pad with the new SMAT's. If you are using a Meguiar's W-9207 Finishing Pad, be sure to clean it after every panel. This is critical and without going into detail is one of the things Kevin Brown will bring up in his pending paper ( I was one of the proof readers). With the new SMAT's I switch out to clean pads for the same step way more often than I do with the traditional diminishing abrasives. So for an average size car, I will now use at least 3-4 pads per detailing step, maybe more. This last point I have found has made the biggest difference of all. If you tend to use the same pad, even if you clean it after every panel, because the new abrasives do not break down per se, a saturated pad with excess product could be a cause of the hazing you are experiencing.



Finally, some paints are just difficult to master. Many times, after all of my polishing steps and products of various brands get used, I sometimes have to use a unique method. For example, on some paints, no matter how I tried, I could not get the paint to finish out with the DA. But with the rotary it came out flawless. :xyxthumbs



Give the above a try and then report back. Hopefully we can get this figured out!!



Tim

Thanks for your post Tim. I have had slight hazing on 2 panels with M205 on the last 6 cars I have used it on. (2 panels total on the last 6 cars, not 2 panels on each car.) So my initital thought is that there was something on the paint. Interesting thoughts to use more pressure and speed 6. I will give that a try. Also looks like its time to order more pads as I have been using just 2 pads on each car. :doh

 

[Tim Lingor]

Thanks for your post Tim. I have had slight hazing on 2 panels with M205 on the last 6 cars I have used it on. (2 panels total on the last 6 cars, not 2 panels on each car.) So my initital thought is that there was something on the paint. Interesting thoughts to use more pressure and speed 6. I will give that a try. Also looks like its time to order more pads as I have been using just 2 pads on each car. :doh

Morning Bryan,



Definitely use more pads. Even after brush cleaning them on the rotary, towel cleaning on the DA, I still end up using at least 3-4 pads, usually 4 pads per step.



Tim

 

[SuperBee364]

Morning Greg,



Let's see if we can figure this out! Like I mentioned to you on TID, I have found that applying M205 with moderate to heavy pressure throughout the buffing cycle including the last pass, seems to work much better for me with the new SMAT's abrasives in M105/M205.





Tim

That right there could be the problem for me. I've been doing heavy-medium-light pressure on every application. Does this also apply to the rotary? Oh, and does it also apply to d151? I cannot get 151 to finish down without grams, either.

 

[imported_Ivan Rajic]

thats why I was thinking 80 might be a suitable followup to 105 instead of 205 - same cut, but diminishing abrasives and a slightly wetter look IMO



but if you went with 205 white pad, then FPII/white or blue pad might do just a touch better followup job...on some paints...



but if you wanted to stick with a two step, and not a 3 step, 105 then 80...anyone tried it out? I will on a mercedes sliver E-class on wednesday, but with it being silver, IDK

I use M80 religiously... it does have filling abilities but it finishes down LSP ready and once you actually know you're correcting how you should be and not just filling, you don't mind the fillers as they add to the look... similarly, if you simply don't want to get 100% due to whatever reasons, M80 is great as it corrects very well but hides also... basically I like it as it finishes down without marring on rotary

 

[Greg Nichols]

I thought the KBM was heavy for 4 or so passes, then light pressure on the final two?



Cheers,

GREG



SuperBee....I like your old signature better.....lol

 

[Lumadar]

Lumadar - Why use glass cleaner? Have you ever experienced ANY filling with 105 &/or 205?

I picked up that suggestion from Nick Chapman. Glass Cleaner contains alcohol and leaves a very clean/pure surface too. For initial testing I use straight ISO wipes, and then wipe the streaking or haze ISO leaves away with the glass cleaner rather than a QD which might fill in and of itself.



As for filling experiences, I did work on a re-painted dark green Focus not long ago and I think I got enough filling to cover up holograms...but the problem is I had used several products and QD wiping for product removal, so I can't say for certain which product caused this.



But, it is possible that I have...but that would be the only time it was ever an issue for me, and realize I use Meguiar's compounds and polishes virtually exclusively.

Lumadar



Rather than say "how can YOU explain" I posted this wanting to know what I'm doing that might be causing this. You are a MEGS Pro, so can you please explain? I just want to get to the bottom of this. So please share all you can to help resolve this.



Cheers,

GREG

Hey Greg,



I've been offering up suggestions throughout the thread, and trying to figure it out as well.



A few of my own quotes, "Not all paints are the same, you can't expect to be able to use the same combo and have it work 100% of the time.



Another thought is working time and pressure.



How long do you work M205? I recently realized that when I worked the product until its very limits where it nearly began to dry I would include either holograms or LIGHT marring. I was pushing the product too far.



Like I said before, it could very well be that this particular paint just isn't playing well with that combination.



You don't see many/any threads about filling with M105 or M205, which leads me to believe this is an isolated incident and not a reason for widespread panic."



So, it could simply be this paint for whatever reason just doesn't work with either M105, M205, or both! It happens. There are too many variables in paint systems out there to make a product that works 100% as intended 100% of the time. You just might be getting that marring and filling just as you expect.



It could also be pressure (Like Tim chimed in about), and/or working time. The only time I have had issues with M205 finishing out properly was when I got carried away "jeweling" and worked the product too long.



I wish I had a more definitive answer, but it's hard to say without being there to experience it personally. My main thought is that A.) The products are failing just as you mentioned, BUT it is not cause for widespread panic and conspiracy theory... it could just be an isolated paint system with abnormal reactions, or B.) There is some tweaking needed in application, pads, pressure, product removal, etc.



Maybe try using a quick detailer as a lubricating removal agent (Last Touch 50/50 is my product of choice) to minimize marring potential, and then do a gentle ISO wipe. Also, I would suggest trying a different style/type of towel.

 

[Lumadar]

Lumadar- I'm not doubting you but in those pictures the sky is quite cloudy which hinders the ability of the sun to do its revealing of light defects, IME.

I admitted in my full write-up from the detail that the pictures were less than ideal. It was an overcast day and I was in and out of the sun and every time I ran to grab the camera clouds would move in before I could snag pictures.



You can call me a liar and say the pictures are cheater shots hiding the truth... that's fine, seriously, I understand. But I will tell you that I can swear on my life that the paint was legitimately flawless in ever sense of the word.



In fact, the owner of the car is a forum member... so maybe he can chime in as well.



PS- The sun was BARELY behind the thinnest of cloud cover in the pictures... if there were holograms or swirls I still think they absolutely would have shown in the pictures. You can count the flake in the second picture...

 

[SuperBee364]

I thought the KBM was heavy for 4 or so passes, then light pressure on the final two?



Cheers,

GREG



SuperBee....I like your old signature better.....lol

That's true... I remember reading Kevin's recommendation about going light on the last few passes, which seems to really make a difference with 105, but not so much with 205.



I wouldn't be surprised to see M205 go through a formula revision soon like 105 did.



P.S. You're still old.

 

[imported_Ivan Rajic]

Super I want to rent your sig space to advertise $mart eco(nomically) friendly on my wallet detailing

 

[SuperBee364]

It could also be pressure (Like Tim chimed in about), and/or working time. The only time I have had issues with M205 finishing out properly was when I got carried away "jeweling" and worked the product too long.

Uh oh. Yeah, I'm definitely guilty of that. The sun isn't out today or I'd go out and test this right now. I have a feeling that that just may be the answer.

 

[SuperBee364]

Super I want to rent your sig space to advertise $mart eco(nomically) friendly on my wallet detailing

Well, since you did meet the pre-requisite of it being eco-friendly, I'll rent it to you, but you can't pay with cash. You have any idea how hard printing money is on the environment??

 

[imported_Ivan Rajic]

Well, since you did meet the pre-requisite of it being eco-friendly, I'll rent it to you, but you can't pay with cash. You have any idea how hard printing money is on the environment??

Are you insinuating I need to fly there and drop trou aypal:



holy crap I'm bored at work