Inert Chemcials

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imported_Intel486

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This is question I had from this thread ( http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15790 )



Scooter on the one board was doing his little freaking out about how chemicals can react with each other.



In his final post he said you shouldn't mix them unless you know they are inert.



Here's the questions I have.



How do we know which chemicals are Inert to each other? Either in liquid form (Still in the bottle) or already cured on the paint?



(I already know the whole, don't mix the high, low PH thing together. Hmmm Acid Degreaser and Simple Green...)
 
Polymers by nature don't really link or react by anything with themselves.. If i could find my chemistry book I would like to explain it in much more scientific-sounding terms. but I'll try more practically.



The companies would be sued if their products were unstable and reacted in bad ways especially with paint.



an example of how and why polymers couldnt mix with carnauba is why we can't put polymer over say.. S100 the polymers won't crosslink or something forming a bond with the paint because it won't bond with carnauba. uh.. nm I dont think I sound like i know what im talking about.. its been a year or two ok... I don't take chemistry again til next semester for med-school and its gonna kill me. :sosad



any chemists wanna help me out? :D
 
AzN Retribution said:
Polymers by nature don't really link or react by anything with themselves.. If i could find my chemistry book I would like to explain it in much more scientific-sounding terms. but I'll try more practically.



The companies would be sued if their products were unstable and reacted in bad ways especially with paint.



an example of how and why polymers couldnt mix with carnauba is why we can't put polymer over say.. S100 the polymers won't crosslink or something forming a bond with the paint because it won't bond with carnauba. uh.. nm I dont think I sound like i know what im talking about.. its been a year or two ok... I don't take chemistry again til next semester for med-school and its gonna kill me. :sosad



any chemists wanna help me out? :D
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So basically, waxing a car w/ one wax, letting it cure, and then waxing it again with some other brand name wax won't cause a chemical reaction?



I'm also wanting to talk more about other products. What if you were using a tire cleaner or some sort of degreaser and then also using a wheel cleaner or some other soap or chemical and the run-off mixed together. Can they mix together and cause a dangerous reaction?
 
Um HmM

depends if it became really alkaline or really acidic.. both extremes could do damage to the paint.. not immediately but um after awhile kind of like what people were saying about lacquer thinner instead of langka :nixweiss



but.. are you talking about run off on cement or on the paint..

cause really there you are not gonna get a dangerous reaction out of any car products really no matter how you mix them.

I could see a kid just toss alot of stuff together to see what happens(I know cause I did this as a kid, I put all these diff cleaners and stuff like draino into my TMNT squirt gun to try and see if i could make something that would kill these really big garden spiders).
 
AzN Retribution said:
Um HmM

depends if it became really alkaline or really acidic.. both extremes could do damage to the paint.. not immediately but um after awhile kind of like what people were saying about lacquer thinner instead of langka :nixweiss



but.. are you talking about run off on cement or on the paint..

cause really there you are not gonna get a dangerous reaction out of any car products really no matter how you mix them.

I could see a kid just toss alot of stuff together to see what happens(I know cause I did this as a kid, I put all these diff cleaners and stuff like draino into my TMNT squirt gun to try and see if i could make something that would kill these really big garden spiders).
Click to expand...



Not just talking about pavement. Maybe chemicals could mix together when cleaning your wheels/tires, engine bay, interior, etc. The possibilites are endless... well not really endless but there are a lot of place where chemicals could mix while detailing.



Another thing I've heard about is house hold cleaners mixing together and giving off a gas that kills people (or does various other mind bending things). You think any detailing products could do this?
 
Intel486 said:




Another thing I've heard about is house hold cleaners mixing together and giving off a gas that kills people (or does various other mind bending things). You think any detailing products could do this?
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Aren't you watching McGyver a bit too much?



I mean, the stuff we use is IMHO not concentrated enough to react like that.

And, we are not using all of our products together but one after another , wright?



Just my thoughts

Christiaan
 
Intel486 said:
Another thing I've heard about is house hold cleaners mixing together and giving off a gas that kills people (or does various other mind bending things). You think any detailing products could do this?
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The household cleaner reaction caution is correct. While I have no idea what detailing chemicals would do, it is not unreasonable to think some of them might do the same. There is also the fact that many of us use some household products for detailing. In my case, I know I use many products that I really have no idea what would happen if they were mixed. As cvcaelen pointed out, the detailing process usually uses chemicals individually and doesn't directly mix them. Hopefully the small amounts left from each step won't do too much damage. When you read about some of the weird things that people try, I think most of us will be O.K.



Charles
 
Read the warning labels on the containers.....they should be there to warn you what to get the product in contact with....



For example read the back of a DRAINO type product which is very caustic.....or Bleach.......These are severe but will give you the idea....



HTH
 
Guess My Name said:
Read the warning labels on the containers.....they should be there to warn you what to get the product in contact with....
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I agree with Guess My Name. If a product is hazardous, the company warning labels will definitely tell you.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone thought to look and see if there are any MSDS's (Material Safety Data Sheets) on the products we Autopians use? Just my .02



Does this mean that we are going to stop detailing our vehicles?

UH, I don't think so!:D
 
Yaz said:
I agree with Guess My Name. If a product is hazardous, the company warning labels will definitely tell you.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone thought to look and see if there are any MSDS's (Material Safety Data Sheets) on the products we Autopians use? Just my .02



Does this mean that we are going to stop detailing our vehicles?

UH, I don't think so!:D
Click to expand...



We have posted the MSDS for 3m products previously, but other companies are reluctant to do so.
 
all companies are required to disclose any chemical contents in their products via MSDS or other that could be potentially harmful to humans. For example, you see the warnings on PPCL or Meguiar's paint cleaner saying "can cause cancer - contains sillicants which, when inhaled in crystaline form, can cause cancer."



as for your wax question intel - I would think that since all waxes have basically the same way of bonding to the paint, (i.e. carnauba wax), they would be compatible.
 
Intel486 said:
Another thing I've heard about is house hold cleaners mixing together and giving off a gas that kills people (or does various other mind bending things). You think any detailing products could do this?
Click to expand...
Personally, I don't think so. My quasi-educated (is that a word? :p) view is that you can probably even mix all sorts of detailing products together in a bucket and not really do anything. I mean, what's in most detailing products anyway? In waxes, sealants, glazes, protectants, and stuff like that they're mostly either water or organic solvents, and then the active ingredients are usually some form of synthetic polymer or just oils or waxes. Nothing that strikes me as super reactive really, just a bunch of stuff suspended or emulsified in some kind of solvent. Like mixing gasoline, tar, oil, and alcohol. Anything bad happen? I don't think so.



A lot of the dangerous chemical mixes come from combining chemicals that contain some harmful chemical within them, and are also highly reactive. Usually they're simple too. Like bleach and ammonia and vinegar (I can't remember which combo is dangerous :p) all of them contain very simple (some harmful) chemicals, and are pretty reactive all on their own.



In chemistry (IIRC) most chemicals used to initiate chemical reactions (are highly reactive) are often very simple and small, not large molecules like the ingredients in waxes/glazes/sealants.



My 2 non-expert cents....



EDIT: SLD brings up another point about waxes. I think that even if companies' formulations differ slightly, the chemicals are probably similar enough to each other that they'd behave the same anyway.
 
I think you would have a problem with some of the bases, if mixed with the wrong thing. Simple Green, for instance, might react badly with some stuff. It's very basic (or alkaline).



The two specific household products I know that you shouldn't mix are bleach and products with ammonia, like Pine Sol. What would be released is chlorine gas. That could be pretty ugly in a confined space, such as the bathroom.



But nobody is using bleach on their cars (I hope....:scared ), so that shouldn't be a problem.
 
Umm, just do us a favor and don't mix ammonia (like Windex) with bleach. It won't make a good (or healthy) window-and-tire cleaner hybrid...
 
2wheelsx2 said:
But nobody is using bleach on their cars (I hope....:scared ), so that shouldn't be a problem.
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It has been done. A guy used it on a white car, partly because of information he didn't understand. Long story, but it had to do with Westley's Bleche-White and using regular bleach for cleaning white letter tires. White tires, white car, white not.



Charles
 
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