IMO, what new guys should get nowadays...

[tom p.]

1. Get yourself a PC, UDM, G110, Flex DA (pick one as your budget will allow)



2. Buy six inch foam pads (or smaller), with the appropriate backing plate. I'd recommend nothing more aggressive than a medium cutting pad (like Lake Country Orange foam), because DA/PC type buffers can leave nasty, NASTY polishing marks when used with aggressive cutting foam pads. Get several no bite foam pads, too (LC red, blue, grey, black, etc.)



3. Buy a bottle of Meguairs M105, and read up on Meguairs web site on how to use it with a DA buffer. It's time well-spent, and will save you much more time than it takes to read up about it.



4. Buy a bottle of Meguairs M205 and do the same thing as in 3.



5. Wash your car with whatever your prefered car wash soap is.



6. Clay your car



7. Use your DA style buffer with M105 and your medium cutting foam pad as per Meguair's instructions.



8. User your DA style buffer with M205 with your no bite foam pad as per Meguair's instructions.



9. Apply whatever LSP (Last Step Product) sealant or wax you happen to like.

Is one of the forum vendors going to create a turnkey kit ? That's what comes to mind when I read this. Give it a complete structure, make it hyper-simple and include all pcs so the purchaser pushes a button and it show up at their door step within a few days.



3. Is M105 necessary for most folks? I really don't know the answer and may be a bit apprehensive about putting that into the hands of someone that has no concept of "correction".



5. specify a premium, no-excuses product like Optimum



6. specify a product that's affordable and available in quantity



9. let the purchaser select either a premium "carnauba" or an e-z to use sealant



I've seen some of the turnkey kits offered at the various merchants. I have a hard time getting excited about them as they contain stuff I don't think I'd ever use. Give the people a premium package that doesn't make them feel like they need to go out and acquire a lot more products. Over the years we all accumulate tons of "stuff" that is used once or twice and then forgotten. Let the collective experience of this group reduce the trial 'n' error or product selection. This is a great idea, SuperBee :2thumbs:

 

[khellendrosXS]

Good thread!



What are your thoughts on wool pads for these machines/products? I know Ive read several threads where people steer clear of foam and use only wool (or maybe Im missing something).

 

[yomiuri]

nice post supe! keep it comin'

 

[SuperBee364]

Being as that I spend a fair amount of time on MOL I can tell you that Mike still suggests M105 and M205 a LOT. In fact, if I were to guess, I would say that it would be close to 50/50 with the consumer products- but Mike always finds out what type of defects are being chased, and who is doing the chasing before he recommends a product.



Ultimate Compound IMO is a bit easier to work with than M105, but M205 and SwirlX are both very comparable in terms of how well they work, and how easy they are to work with...but I would give the nod to M205.



It's also a different combo in how it works because the M105/M205 combo has more initial cut and less final cut, where as UC and SX has less initial and more final cut. Just something to keep in mind when using the combos. :think2

I was hoping that someone would post that exact info.

 

[SuperBee364]

SuperBee364 & Kevin Brown- Thanks for the info about how the larger pads work with the M105. I'm guessing that the OK performance goes for the M205 also, please correct me if that's wrong.



Positive opinions regarding the Surbuf pads simply me. Mine shed fibers quickly (as in lots of 'em all over the panel) and (not-so-micro) marred up my Jag so much I was, uhm...upset. I haven't used them since and simply would *never* risk another such incident. Can't help but wonder if I somehow got defective SurBufs or picked a polish that just didn't work with 'em (forget what I used, this was quite a while ago).

I wish I could tell ya about the large pads and 205. I've only used 205 via rotary so far. I'm planning on using 205 and the PC on today's victim...er... detail.



Hmmm. I seem to have completely missed the whole SurBuf thing. Never even heard of em!

Thanks for this post Supe! I just had my last midterm before spring break so I should have some time to polish my car out using the KBPCM! However, I'm curious if there would be a noticeable difference between the old and new M105 formula. Also, I'm planning on using the 3M UK pads so I'm wondering what kind of effects I'll be experiencing instead of using flat pads.

Denzil, I used red edge wave foam pads with 205 (and 105 too, for that matter). I hesitate to say too much about 205 yet, 'cause I've only used it by rotary, and I didn't get very good results. Using the black Meg's soft buff 2.0 pad gave me very good results with 105. I'm going to use it with 205 today on both the rotary and PC. My *initial* impression (and I think Kevin Brown is going to talk quite a bit about exactly this) of 105 and 205 is that they are *extremely* pressure dependant; the amount of pressure (or lack thereof) will directly effect the polish's performance. If you want a lot of cut, push hard. When you want to finish off to a high gloss, just the weight of the buffer should do. "Stiff" pads, like Meg's Soft Buff 2.0's, are just the ticket for this type of buffing. Unfortunately, my old favorites (Edge and LC red) are just too soft. The Soft Buff 2.0 black pad is a zero cut pad (the texture is very soft), but the pad itself is very stiff, as in resistant to compression. This is *the* ticket for using 105 and 205 well. So now I gotta buy all new pads, and I still have a few edge 2000 red wave foam pads still in the wrapper. I kinda think you won't have the greatest results with the 3m pad and 205 as far as correcting goes (you can't push very hard on that pad), but you should be able to get a good finish.

Is one of the forum vendors going to create a turnkey kit ? That's what comes to mind when I read this. Give it a complete structure, make it hyper-simple and include all pcs so the purchaser pushes a button and it show up at their door step within a few days.



3. Is M105 necessary for most folks? I really don't know the answer and may be a bit apprehensive about putting that into the hands of someone that has no concept of "correction".



5. specify a premium, no-excuses product like Optimum



6. specify a product that's affordable and available in quantity



9. let the purchaser select either a premium "carnauba" or an e-z to use sealant



I've seen some of the turnkey kits offered at the various merchants. I have a hard time getting excited about them as they contain stuff I don't think I'd ever use. Give the people a premium package that doesn't make them feel like they need to go out and acquire a lot more products. Over the years we all accumulate tons of "stuff" that is used once or twice and then forgotten. Let the collective experience of this group reduce the trial 'n' error or product selection. This is a great idea, SuperBee :2thumbs:

Thanks, Tom. I've always felt the same way about the "all you need" kits; there's invariably at least one product that spoils the package.



105 really does shatter conventional wisdom: start with the least aggressive solution first. 105 is great because it really is an "All In One" as far as medium to heavy polishes go. When you apply a diminishing abrasive, as you know, you have to work it all the way from start to finish in order to get the polish to finish down as well as it can. Since 105 doesn't diminish, you simply use it til the defects are gone, do a couple more passes with light pressure to get a good finish, and you're done. So you can vary the weight, pad and number of passes with 105 to do anything from Menz Intensive Polish type work, up to 3M EC. Just work it til you have what you want, and stop. Although I must say that, IMO, the new 105 doesn't have nearly the cutting power as the old stuff did. Not even close, really. LoL, this was all just a real long winded way of saying, "yeah, 105 really is necessary".



It's probably just a matter of time before Meg's capitalizes on the "all in one" idea. They'll probably do a G110 UC/SwirlX/Deep Crystal Polish/Deep Crystal Wax combo kit any day now.

Good thread!



What are your thoughts on wool pads for these machines/products? I know Ive read several threads where people steer clear of foam and use only wool (or maybe Im missing something).

I haven't used wool on the PC with the new 105/205. I did use PFW a few times with the PC and the old 105. I got great correction, but the finish sucked. I would imagine (and this is nothing more than a guess on my part cause I haven't used it), that using some types of wool pad on the PC with the new polishes will work well.



On the rotary, I'm one of those loud mouthed wool proponents, and I *do* use wool with 105 on the rotary on just about every car I do. PFW cuts fast, hard, and finishes down better than any other wool pad I've used. A 30 second application time of 105 with PFW will get out darn near all reachable defects, while finishing down unbelievably well. I'm able to get the same kind of correction out of the PC with foam and 105, but the application time is closer to five minutes.

nice post supe! keep it comin'

Thanks man. I've been unable to keep my mouth shut for just over two years now. No sign of anything changing anytime soon...

 

[Accumulator]

Kevin Brown- Thanks for the reply and the additional info on the SurBufs, here I'd thought it was just me



I somehow missed the point when you referred to them on that other , linked (thanks for making that easy for me), thread. I'd read that and though "gee, wonder why they worked great for him but not for me..." and never pursued it.



Yeah, in the "whole-lotta-variables" vein, I was using them for moderate/minimal correction, on an unusual paint, and it was a very limited trial as the results were immediately alarming. My bad for extrapolating too broadly; now you have me rethinking the SurBufs. For serious correction with something like the M105 I'll defer to your experience (and you can take my word for it that they're not appropriate for finish polishing of single stage metallic lacquer ).



Thanks again for the explanation. Glad I didn't toss the remaining SurBufs after all...sheesh, had I only used those with M105 that M3 of mine might not've turned into the never-ending project from Hell.

 

[imported_Denzil]

Denzil, I used red edge wave foam pads with 205 (and 105 too, for that matter). I hesitate to say too much about 205 yet, 'cause I've only used it by rotary, and I didn't get very good results. Using the black Meg's soft buff 2.0 pad gave me very good results with 105. I'm going to use it with 205 today on both the rotary and PC. My *initial* impression (and I think Kevin Brown is going to talk quite a bit about exactly this) of 105 and 205 is that they are *extremely* pressure dependant; the amount of pressure (or lack thereof) will directly effect the polish's performance. If you want a lot of cut, push hard. When you want to finish off to a high gloss, just the weight of the buffer should do. "Stiff" pads, like Meg's Soft Buff 2.0's, are just the ticket for this type of buffing. Unfortunately, my old favorites (Edge and LC red) are just too soft. The Soft Buff 2.0 black pad is a zero cut pad (the texture is very soft), but the pad itself is very stiff, as in resistant to compression. This is *the* ticket for using 105 and 205 well. So now I gotta buy all new pads, and I still have a few edge 2000 red wave foam pads still in the wrapper. I kinda think you won't have the greatest results with the 3m pad and 205 as far as correcting goes (you can't push very hard on that pad), but you should be able to get a good finish.

Ah, thanks again for the info Supe! Guess I'll be purchasing some 2.0's from my local vendor to try this technique out. :2thumbs:

 

[Striker]

Just to briefly freshen up on the subject about smaller pads being used on the PC-



Is this recommended over my 6in Lake Country pads? I noticed that at times I get frustrated at my pc not producing much correcting capabilities with my menzerna twins.



Would someone care to explain if smaller pads would indeed be of benefit?

 

[imported_shine]

Just to briefly freshen up on the subject about smaller pads being used on the PC-



Is this recommended over my 6in Lake Country pads? I noticed that at times I get frustrated at my pc not producing much correcting capabilities with my menzerna twins.



Would someone care to explain if smaller pads would indeed be of benefit?

With smaller pads more correction ability is gained due to the smaller surface area the machine is responsible for moving at any given time. Many prefer 4" or 5.5" pads on the PC (I like 5.5" for my slightly more powerful G110 and UDM). I would definitely suggest getting some small pads.

 

[htodd]

Wow, a very useful and timely thread; I've been spending the last several weeks reading and trying to figure out what I should be using for my correction which I hope to start tomorrow.

I've got the 6" (and 7") LC pads, all I need are the 105/205.



As someone new to Meg's products, when I go out looking for this stuff tomorrow how do I know if I'm finding the "new" stuff?

 

[Type Incredible]

Does anyone know if a PC is available to rent from harbor freight. I just getting into detail as a hobby, what do you guys recommend for a wheel cleaner, is it just p21s TAW, or is something some swissvax good aswell.



Also, is it better to buy a kit like from adam's polish, swissvax or to pick them up individually.



Thanks

Alex

 

[Accumulator]

.. all I need are the 105/205.



As someone new to Meg's products, when I go out looking for this stuff tomorrow how do I know if I'm finding the "new" stuff?

IIRC there's only one version of M205 and the new M105 mentions its use via D/A on the label.

 

[BigAl3]

As someone new to Meg's products, when I go out looking for this stuff tomorrow how do I know if I'm finding the "new" stuff?

there's only one version of #205 and with #105, look on the back of the bottle and you'll know which version you have as the picture illustration will show that the new version can be used with the D/A as such below...