IMO, what new guys should get nowadays...

SuperBee364

New member
Meguairs and Kevin Brown have ushered in a new era when it comes to personal car detailing, and even pro car detailing for that matter.



PC's/DA buffers were always considered second fiddle to the rotary for correction ability and the ability to finish down to a very fine level. While I still think that *overall*, the rotary still wins the competition, the new Meguairs products used with KB's method takes the PC/DA to an entirely new level.



Autopia has always/will always have a ton of new guys asking, "what should I get to go with my PC?" threads/posts. The following is just my take on it, and of course I'd love to hear others opinions as well.



1. Get yourself a PC, UDM, G110, Flex DA (pick one as your budget will allow)



2. Buy six inch foam pads (or smaller), with the appropriate backing plate. I'd recommend nothing more aggressive than a medium cutting pad (like Lake Country Orange foam), because DA/PC type buffers can leave nasty, NASTY polishing marks when used with aggressive cutting foam pads. Get several no bite foam pads, too (LC red, blue, grey, black, etc.)



3. Buy a bottle of Meguairs M105, and read up on Meguairs web site on how to use it with a DA buffer. It's time well-spent, and will save you much more time than it takes to read up about it.



4. Buy a bottle of Meguairs M205 and do the same thing as in 3.



5. Wash your car with whatever your prefered car wash soap is.



6. Clay your car



7. Use your DA style buffer with M105 and your medium cutting foam pad as per Meguair's instructions.



8. User your DA style buffer with M205 with your no bite foam pad as per Meguair's instructions.



9. Apply whatever LSP (Last Step Product) sealant or wax you happen to like.



10. Go relax... it's been a long day.
 
SuperBee364- Good post :xyxthumbs That's one of those concise summaries that could save a lot of time (for a lot of different people ;) ).



My $0.02 would be to stick with 4" pads when doing correction via PC, even with stuff like M105, but that's just me. Any comments from the other side of the fence about why the 6" pads might be more suitable with M105/m205 than with other products? I.e, are the sharp abrasives in M105 enough for it to work with hardly any pressure, and if so how much does/can the light cut pad contribute functionally speaking?



Note that I haven't *tried* the larger pads with M105 and I'm just knee-jerking based on my experience with the PC in general.



Now a few of us need to try M105/M205 via Cyclo some time....
 
Looks good, even further simplified for my simple mind:



1. Wash

2. Clay

3. Polish M105

4. Polish M205

5. Wax



We could call it the Supe method!



I'm gonna give this a shot on the wife's car when get my UDM and supplies next week.



Justin



BTW Supe I am also from Utah. Born in SLC and moved out to Cali when I was 10. Most of my family is in Mapelton area. I'll move back someday.
 
Thank you for the post. From a guy with little experience - it is useful information. My only question is if it 105/205 should be the go to. Meg. would certainly agree with your post but from what I read on the Meg. forum M. Phillips would replace the 105/205 with UC/Swirl-x for common folk like me.



I do not know why they would be easier to work via DA but even with the 105/205 DA endorsment - they talk of this as a rotary product for skilled pros.



BTW I am using the UC/Swirl-x combo and it is GREEAATT
 
lecchilo said:
I agree and would HIGHLY recommend the 5.5" pads from autogeek... nothing, yes nothing, works better on the G110/PC!



CCS foam buffing pads,foam polishing pads,lake country foam pads,foam polisher pads,buffer pads,lake county pads,porter cable pads,pads for air sander



Those are the exact pads I used, Lecchilo, and they worked very well.



Accumulator said:
SuperBee364- Good post :xyxthumbs That's one of those concise summaries that could save a lot of time (for a lot of different people ;) ).



My $0.02 would be to stick with 4" pads when doing correction via PC, even with stuff like M105, but that's just me. Any comments from the other side of the fence about why the 6" pads might be more suitable with M105/m205 than with other products? I.e, are the sharp abrasives in M105 enough for it to work with hardly any pressure, and if so how much does/can the light cut pad contribute functionally speaking?



Note that I haven't *tried* the larger pads with M105 and I'm just knee-jerking based on my experience with the PC in general.



Now a few of us need to try M105/M205 via Cyclo some time....



Yeah, I kinda thought the smaller pads would be the way to go, too, but Todd and company have suggested using the larger ones, so I gave it a shot. I was shocked and amazed that the bigger pads corrected just as well as the small 4.5" ones did. You can get stuff done faster with the larger pads with 105 without affecting it's overall correcting ability.. which was a real surprise to me. But yes, with any other products, I would stick by your recommendation of using smaller pads with the PC.



the walrus said:
Looks good, even further simplified for my simple mind:



1. Wash

2. Clay

3. Polish M105

4. Polish M205

5. Wax



We could call it the Supe method!



I'm gonna give this a shot on the wife's car when get my UDM and supplies next week.



Justin



BTW Supe I am also from Utah. Born in SLC and moved out to Cali when I was 10. Most of my family is in Mapelton area. I'll move back someday.



Very cool! Yup, I'm a local boy.. born and raised. Moved away for a while, but found myself back home again.



frito said:
Thank you for the post. From a guy with little experience - it is useful information. My only question is if it 105/205 should be the go to. Meg. would certainly agree with your post but from what I read on the Meg. forum M. Phillips would replace the 105/205 with UC/Swirl-x for common folk like me.



I do not know why they would be easier to work via DA but even with the 105/205 DA endorsment - they talk of this as a rotary product for skilled pros.



BTW I am using the UC/Swirl-x combo and it is GREEAATT



That's a great point... If Mike Phillips is recommending UC/Swirl-X 2.0 over 105/205, I would certainly go with him. I just kinda posted after I had used the 105 with the PC with such good results.



Bostonsfavson said:
Can not WAIT for Mr. Brown's paper. Good post SuperBee.



Me too, man... me too. :)
 
The other thing to consider is the total surface area of the buffing pads:



3.0" = 7.07 square inches



4.0" = 12.56 square inches (77% more surface area compared to a 3.0" pad)



5.5" = 23.75 square inches (89% more surface area compared to a 4.0" pad)



6.5" = 33.18 square inches (40% more surface area compared to a 5.5" pad)



7.0" = 38.48 square inches (16% more surface area compared to a 6.5" pad)





The smaller the pad, the more rapidly it loads with abraded paint residue.

This can cause an increase in installed defects and a decrease in cutting power.



The pad velocity is also substantially increased with a larger diameter pad.

The increase in speed can increase cutting power at the the outer edge of the pad.



Some pads (such as the Surbuf) do not need additional downward pressure to cut paint efficiently.

When finishing, a large pad can help to distribute downward pressure evenly yet mildly.



I agree that 4.0" pads have definite advantages over larger pads, but the bigger pads work well, too!

It just depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
 
Kevin, thanks for that.



I think it's important to note what frito said about using Meguiar's Ultimate Compound instead of M105, and Swirl X instead of M205... Personally, I haven't used UC or SwirlX, but Meguiars is marketing those products toward the enthusiast detailer, so they gotta be both good *and* easy to use.



OK, I have to admit... I just went down to the local Autozone to buy some UC and Swirl X. They still don't have them in. The only updated Meg's product they had was Scratch X 2.0. I didn't buy the Scratch X 2.0, 'cause M105 (both old and new) works so well by hand, Scratch X just isn't needed anymore.
 
SuperBee364 said:
Kevin, thanks for that.



I think it's important to note what frito said about using Meguiar's Ultimate Compound instead of M105, and Swirl X instead of M205... Personally, I haven't used UC or SwirlX, but Meguiars is marketing those products toward the enthusiast detailer, so they gotta be both good *and* easy to use.



OK, I have to admit... I just went down to the local Autozone to buy some UC and Swirl X. They still don't have them in. The only updated Meg's product they had was Scratch X 2.0. I didn't buy the Scratch X 2.0, 'cause M105 (both old and new) works so well by hand, Scratch X just isn't needed anymore.



Being as that I spend a fair amount of time on MOL ;) I can tell you that Mike still suggests M105 and M205 a LOT. In fact, if I were to guess, I would say that it would be close to 50/50 with the consumer products- but Mike always finds out what type of defects are being chased, and who is doing the chasing before he recommends a product.



Ultimate Compound IMO is a bit easier to work with than M105, but M205 and SwirlX are both very comparable in terms of how well they work, and how easy they are to work with...but I would give the nod to M205.



It's also a different combo in how it works because the M105/M205 combo has more initial cut and less final cut, where as UC and SX has less initial and more final cut. Just something to keep in mind when using the combos. :think2
 
Lumadar said:
It's also a different combo in how it works because the M105/M205 combo has more initial cut and less final cut, where as UC and SX has less initial and more final cut. Just something to keep in mind when using the combos. :think2



What do you think about the UC/205 combo?
 
Good thread... possible sticky!



This will answer a lot of the new guys (and old guys!) questions about:



"What should I use..............?"

"What should I do..............?"

"Which machine............?"

"What polish...........?"

"What pads.............?"

"Please Help!...........!"



:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:



My fav pads are the LC 5.5" orange. I probably have 20 orange, 5 yellow, 5 white. Good stuff...;)
 
SuperBee364 & Kevin Brown- Thanks for the info about how the larger pads work with the M105. I'm guessing that the OK performance goes for the M205 also, please correct me if that's wrong.



Yeah, I'd been cleaning out the 4" pads rather frequently and thus missing out on the "product-loaded pad that doesn't need replenished" effect. Being able to use the larger pads will make things easier and I for one am glad the smaller pads aren't required with this type of product.



I *do* suspect that for the "apply lots of pressure" techniques there will be some issues using the larger pads with the PC (as opposed to, say the Flex 3401) and opinions/info is always welcome. With ~6" pads, it seems I have to watch I don't overload the PC (meaning making it merely jiggle) when I'm applying *waxes* and other products that don't require pressure.



Oh, and that bit about how the outer portion of the larger pads moves so much faster reminded me of hard-drive lectures back in the '80s :D



Positive opinions regarding the Surbuf pads simply :confused: me. Mine shed fibers quickly (as in lots of 'em all over the panel) and (not-so-micro) marred up my Jag so much I was, uhm...upset. I haven't used them since and simply would *never* risk another such incident. Can't help but wonder if I somehow got defective SurBufs or picked a polish that just didn't work with 'em (forget what I used, this was quite a while ago).
 
I really wish I could find some M105 in the Austin Texas area. I went to Oreillys which normally carriers the widest selection of Meguiars in my area. For some reason after calling their distro center and Meguiars they are being told the state of Texas prohibits their trucks from carrying M105 ????



I had planned on my "free" weekend coming up next weekend and it appears plans have shifted to this weekend. Now I have my car washed clayed and no 105 to work. I actually tried to buy local prior to the net and should of knnown better. Guess I'll have to go to town on it with the Clearkote products that I have.



Chris
 
Thanks for this post Supe! I just had my last midterm before spring break so I should have some time to polish my car out using the KBPCM! However, I'm curious if there would be a noticeable difference between the old and new M105 formula. Also, I'm planning on using the 3M UK pads so I'm wondering what kind of effects I'll be experiencing instead of using flat pads.
 
akimel said:
What do you think about the UC/205 combo?



To be honest, I haven't exclusively used that combination yet. The detail I just did last week used M105, UC, SX, and M205... but I didn't use UC followed by M205 anywhere exclusively to be able to give an honest answer.



From a logistical and theoretical standpoint, however, I think the combination would be really awesome on easier to work with paints.



I'm buffing a 2008 Infiniti G37s coupe right now in my garage and so far it looks like M205 will be my only corrective step. :eek: Mind you, it has what I would classify as moderate swirls- I was expecting to need UC or M105 first.
 
Accumulator said:
... Positive opinions regarding the Surbuf pads simply :confused: me. Mine shed fibers quickly (as in lots of 'em all over the panel) and (not-so-micro) marred up my Jag so much I was, uhm...upset. I haven't used them since and simply would *never* risk another such incident. Can't help but wonder if I somehow got defective SurBufs or picked a polish that just didn't work with 'em (forget what I used, this was quite a while ago).



No, what you experienced is normal, as the Surbuf pads shed quite a bit.

I also experienced the marring problems you encountered. After some trial and error on test panels, I was fortunate to dial in an optimum way to apply abrasive liquids with the pads.



Granted- they do not finish out as nicely as a soft foam pad. But for defect removal... Holy SMOKES! These pads can outperform a rotary in terms of paint leveling. No joke.



I posted a bit about this awhile back to answer the question, "What compounds and pads are you using to level paint on the PC?"



Go to post 45 for information about the Surbuf and the best method for paint leveling:



http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-de...estimates-power-pc-help-me-get-my-poin-4.html
 
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