I need some advice and help...

S

sixty7mustang22

New member
So here is the deal. I painted my friends hood on his GTI like so...



DSCF0010.jpg




I used BASF base and clear. I mixed the paint like I always have for every car I have done. I have never had problems before.



However, for some reason, the paint on his hood seems to have cured REALLY soft. 2 nights ago, a cat got on his hood and scratched it pretty good. So, he called me and asked me if I could get them out. I agreed and he came over. Well, I have had problems with the hood in the past. When I painted it, a gnat flew into the last coat of clear.:mad: So, after it dried, I wetsanded it out and brought out the roatary and wool pad with some compound and then finished it up with my PC and polish. But, some light vertical scratches remained runnign up the hood. We let it go at that.



So, yesterday, I started out with OP on a LC orange light cutting pad on my PC at 5. It worked for the most part. It got rid of the cat scratches, but it didn't tough the scratches that were already there.



I then moved to OC on a LC orange light cutting pad on PC at 5. This is where things went horribly wrong. After I worked the polish in for a long time and then wiped it off, it looked like I lightly rubbed a brillow pad on the hood. It looked similar to this...



DSC00097.jpg




I dunno what happened. I suppose the compound was to harsh for the clear???



So, I brought out the same polishes and pads I used to correct this...



Merc_006.jpg




I used a XMT #3 on a LC orange light cutting pad and then moved to on to XMT #1 on a LC white polishing pad on PC at 5. It really cleared the hood back up. But, it only got the hood about 80% swirl free. Under halogen, it still looked kinda bad. Not terrible, but not perfect either.



So, what should I do? What would be my best course of action? Apparently, stronger compounds and pads make things worse. I have NEVER had this much trouble on an car before I I detail cars as a profession.



Here is a list of things I have to work with...



Complete XMT line

Meguiar's #2 Fine Cut Cleaner

Meguiar's #3 Machine Glaze

Meguiar's #9 Swirl Remover 2.0

3M Heavy Duty Rubbing Compound

3M Microfinishing Compund

Optimum Polish, Compund and Hyper Compound

PC 7424

Craftsmen Rotary (Borken:mad: )

Full range of 6.5" LC pads

Full range of 4" LC pds

wool pads

sandpaper



Apparently, using the OP with a slightly aggressive pad worked the best. It just didn't have enough cut. Do you think moving up to a LC yellow cutting pad and OP the working my way back down through the pads would be the best option? Would that have enough cut?



I dunno, I need more advice. Sure I could keep trying different things, but but this isn't my car. I can't just practice on his car. I need to get this fixed. I need to hear some opinions and maybe some experience on this type of work.



Everythign I have learned in my detailing career has been thrown out the window with this paint.



:help:
 
so right now you are at about 80% cleared up? I think I would go with a different final polish than the XMT #1. I have the #1 and it is just ok. Try some poli-seal or some FPII or maybe 106ff and see if that gets the rest out. Wouldn't go with anything harsh at this point. Start with a good final polish and see if that works out. IF you got to 80% with XMT i think you can clear it up with a better product.



good luck man! Hope it works out.
 
Hmm. I might have to purchase some then. I would like to take care of it with the products I already have, but if need be, I will buy the FPII. I'm sure I could probably use it anyway.



Anyone have a clue why the OC screwed the finish up so badly?
 
sixty7mustang22 said:
Anyone have a clue why the OC screwed the finish up so badly?
Click to expand...



Well you mentioned you worked if for a long time. Perhaps a little too long? I'm not doubting your abilities or anything but perhaps you worked it too long, didn't have enough product, did you prep the pad? Just a few things I can think of.



I have never had a problem with OC. It is an aggresive compound so it may leave you with some maring. Easily removed by OP and poli-seal, or menz products.



So no telling what caused it. Try using the OP on a white pad again if you don't want to pop for a new product. I can get a great finish with that combo (better than 80%). But a good final will be that much better.
 
Is there a chance your friend waxed the paint job after you painted it? BTW, how long has it been since this paint job?
 
SubyDude said:
Well you mentioned you worked if for a long time. Perhaps a little too long? I'm not doubting your abilities or anything but perhaps you worked it too long, didn't have enough product, did you prep the pad? Just a few things I can think of.



I have never had a problem with OC. It is an aggresive compound so it may leave you with some maring. Easily removed by OP and poli-seal, or menz products.



So no telling what caused it. Try using the OP on a white pad again if you don't want to pop for a new product. I can get a great finish with that combo (better than 80%). But a good final will be that much better.
Click to expand...
Nah, I didn't work it to long. One thing though, instead of to little product, I might have used to much if I go back and think about it. Maybe it didn't break down right.



Well, this wasn't your typical compound maring.



I might have used it wrong. I haven't used Optimum for very long. This is only my third time useing it.



velobard said:
Is there a chance your friend waxed the paint job after you painted it? BTW, how long has it been since this paint job?
Click to expand...

There is a chance. Which is why I think it might have not cured right and is soft which is what I think you are getting at. I told him not to until spring, but he might have.



Well, let's see, we painted it in Novemeber...so that makes it about 4 months. It should have cured correctly by now.



At any rate, if he did wax, the damage is done and the clear is soft. I still have to correct this problem on soft clear.



Maybe I should try Meg's #9 on a polishing pad? Would that finish finer than XMT #1?
 
sixty7mustang22 said:
Nah, I didn't work it to long. One thing though, instead of to little product, I might have used to much if I go back and think about it. Maybe it didn't break down right.



Well, this wasn't your typical compound maring.



I might have used it wrong. I haven't used Optimum for very long. This is only my third time useing it.





There is a chance. Which is why I think it might have not cured right and is soft which is what I think you are getting at. I told him not to until spring, but he might have.



Well, let's see, we painted it in Novemeber...so that makes it about 4 months. It should have cured correctly by now.



At any rate, if he did wax, the damage is done and the clear is soft. I still have to correct this problem on soft clear.



Maybe I should try Meg's #9 on a polishing pad? Would that finish finer than XMT #1?
Click to expand...





its possible it didn't break down right. but I don't think that would cause the maring. If you use too much it just won't take out what you want it too.



I don't recommend #9. I am sure some here will. But #9 is a cleaner and filler. Megs states it has no abrasives and that it will fill in. They call it a swirl remover when in fact it is a swirl hider. That is not what you want. You want to correct the problem. IMO go back over with the OP and white pad. Honestly that should do it. If not something else is wrong and I am out of ideas.
 
SubyDude said:
its possible it didn't break down right. but I don't think that would cause the maring. If you use too much it just won't take out what you want it too.



I don't recommend #9. I am sure some here will. But #9 is a cleaner and filler. Megs states it has no abrasives and that it will fill in. They call it a swirl remover when in fact it is a swirl hider. That is not what you want. You want to correct the problem. IMO go back over with the OP and white pad. Honestly that should do it. If not something else is wrong and I am out of ideas.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice.
 
SubyDude said:
no prob. hope you get it worked out. the paint job on that car looks nice by the way. GTi is a fun little car too.
Click to expand...

I'll get something to work.



Thanks. I love painting cars almost as much as I love cleaning them.



Yeah, he has stage II REVO software. It isn't the fastest thing on the street, but man can it get you into some trouble. Quick cars.
 
Consider trying Megs #80. Not sure what pad to tell you to use, but it looks like it might help you in this case.



Also, if you're dealing with soft paint you might also consider VM. It has abrasives made to break down by hand, but can be used by machine. Just an idea, but perhaps that would allow you to give some decent correction on such a soft surface.



One other thought. I was tossing the idea around here several days ago that perhaps if you chemically stripped the paint clean that perhaps the paint could continue curing. I'm not sure how well that would work after this much time, but you might toss the idea around yourself and see what you think. I first thought perhap a full chemical decontamination, but Accumultor voiced the opinion that he'd rather use something milder on new paint. Use your own judgement uf you go in this direction. You can always use #5 to offer a bit of protection and shine safely, of course.
 
Did you try asking your paint supplier? Maybe he has some insight on what happened and how to resolve it. Maybe to an aggressive sandpaper and compound combo?:wall :nixweiss :hairpull
 
SubyDude said:
I don't recommend #9. I am sure some here will. But #9 is a cleaner and filler. Megs states it has no abrasives and that it will fill in. They call it a swirl remover when in fact it is a swirl hider. That is not what you want. You want to correct the problem. IMO go back over with the OP and white pad. Honestly that should do it. If not something else is wrong and I am out of ideas.
Click to expand...



Huh? Where did you read that about #9? It's very wrong. Meg's defines #9 as a cleaner/polish, and as such it contains diminishing abrasives, as opposed to their pure polishes (e.g. #7). It won't "fill" the swirls, but it does contain polishing oils that can tend to "hide" swirls - until you wipe of the residue, as you would with any other polish.



But I do agree on trying OP on a polishing pad after OC. #9 is probably to mild for this, and would work better as a finishing polish.
 
I use to do a lot of custom painting back in the day and if you want top show results to be more than proud of using 100% correction with no filling at all my solution would be.



1.wetsand 2000 grit

2.Presta Ultra cutting creme with wool cutting pad 1200 to 1800 rpm(very fast cutting and will produce super gloss)

3.Presta 1500 polish with a polish foam pad rotory



The results will be better than the rest of the car and you will have to do the rest of the car to match the new paint work!



I have tried this process 100's of times and always works the best!!!!!!!!
 
I think we're missing, or overlooking, a few things here... Remember, the car's in his shop, the customer's coming- he has to do something *now* with stuff he either has on hand or can get ASAP, and he needs something with a nice steep learning curve, no time to "master" a product or refine technique. No, the conditions aren't optimal but he has to deal with the situation as best he can.



..the clear is soft. I still have to correct this problem on soft clear...
Click to expand...



sixty7mustang22 is dealing with unusually soft paint here... more aggressive measures (e.g., wetsanding/compounding/etc.) aren't the answer as he's micomarring it with stuff that should normally leave a good finish. He needs something milder, not something more aggressive.



I've had paint that was *so* soft I couldn't get a decent finish from #80 (let alone OCP)- the initial cut of it left marring that the product couldn't remove as it broke down-yeah, that was unexpected but it happened, I just had to deal with it as best I could. Sometimes you need a product that's so mild as to be *almost* nonabrasive. That's where products like #9 (and VM for that matter) can come in handy.



And sometimes the best you can do is some concealing with a wax topper. No, I would't like that either but you do what you can. What's to be expected the first time the owner washes that soft paint anyhow...think of how most people wash cars- marring city.



Velobard- This one is probably beyond what you and I were discussing...four months is a while. If the customer really cares all that much (pretty big "if" IMO, think of how most people are ;) ) then I bet it'd just have to get reshot. Heh heh, think he'd care *that* much?
 
I think your main issue is a soft clear which is why the OC left you with the finish you described.



So as noted at 80% good go with the OP and a 100 ppi pad at 1000 rpms with your rotary and then same combo with your PC. If this leaves you with marring then you can pretty much know it's not the product/pad but a paint issue. You can try the FPII and a 100 ppi pad but I don't see it correcting much more in this case than the OP.....but I could be wrong.



Before you get the FPII try the OP/100 ppi pad first.



If a paint issue I reckon he lives with it or you re-spray it, eh?



Good luck,

Anthony
 
RyanDe680 said:
Please post up what works and what you end up resolving this with.
Click to expand...

OK, here is what worked.



one pass with OP on LC yellow cutting pad

one pass with OP on LC polishing pad

two passes with meg's #9 with LC polishing pad

NXT wax



I tried to keep the cut of polishes I used to a minimum but used pads to do the work.

I got the mojor swirls out with OP and cutting pad.

I then removed about 80% of that marring with OP and polish pad.

I also kept the polish down to a minimum. I think one of my problems last time was using to much polish. So, this time I was MUCH more concious about the amount of polish.

I then removed the remaining swirls with two passes of #9. To be honest, after reading people on here complaining about #9 either filling or not being able to cut, I was a bit skeptical about using it. However, it was the finest polish I could get my hands on during the weekend without spendin a crap load of money for a polish that I don't really need. However, it had just enough cut on the polishing pad that it didn't mar any and it took out enough of the swirls. I was also curious about these "fillers" that it contained. So, after I polished with #9, I did a alcohol wipedown after polishing and well, it didn't do any filling that I could tell. Maybe it was because I really took my time and worked the polish.



After that, I applied NXT because, well, the owner had already applied NXT to the rest of the car while I was working on the hood and I just thought I would keep the theme going.



All in all, I learned a LOT from this hood. I'm pretty confident working with soft paint now.



And sorry for no pics. I was also in the process of moving this weekend, so things got really hectic. I'll make up for it next time.:sadwavey:



velobard said:
Consider trying Megs #80. Not sure what pad to tell you to use, but it looks like it might help you in this case.



One other thought. I was tossing the idea around here several days ago that perhaps if you chemically stripped the paint clean that perhaps the paint could continue curing. I'm not sure how well that would work after this much time, but you might toss the idea around yourself and see what you think. I first thought perhap a full chemical decontamination, but Accumultor voiced the opinion that he'd rather use something milder on new paint. Use your own judgement uf you go in this direction. You can always use #5 to offer a bit of protection and shine safely, of course.
Click to expand...
Well, I considered #80, but I couldn't get my hands on it.



I'm not sure if stripping it would help it cure further. I think the damage is done. I will discuss it with the owner though.



I mainly just paint cars. Taking care of the paint after is never my responsibility. I do tell the owners stuff like "don't wax for 3 months. If you feel the urge to, I would suggest these products..."etc... On my cars, I know what to do. This is the first time I had had a person that got me to paint the car actually detail it also. So, now I can use him as an example to tell new paint customers and warn them of the problems with waxing to early.



jtford95 said:
Did you try asking your paint supplier? Maybe he has some insight on what happened and how to resolve it. Maybe to an aggressive sandpaper and compound combo?:wall :nixweiss :hairpull
Click to expand...
Nah. One reason is because this is the only paint I have used. It has always been a great paint on my cars and I have never had a problem with it being soft. I used the same amount of hardner I always use. just think the clear wasn't allowed to cure correctly. I know for a fact sandpaper and compunt was to agressive though.



rydawg said:
I use to do a lot of custom painting back in the day and if you want top show results to be more than proud of using 100% correction with no filling at all my solution would be.
Click to expand...
I got as close to !00% as I could. No filling other than NXT at the end and that was ony for the very faint and extremely few lines left.



rydawg said:
Easy!



Op....wool pad then

OP...foam pad



Should look super
Click to expand...
A wool pad on this paint would have probably installed so many swirls that I wouldn't have ever been able to effectively remove them.



Anthony Orosco said:
If a paint issue I reckon he lives with it or you re-spray it, eh?
Click to expand...
Yeah, If I couldn't have gotten it as good as I did, I would have suggested a reclear to him free of charge. He is my friend and all. But, everything worked out well.



Accumulator said:
I think we're missing, or overlooking, a few things here... Remember, the car's in his shop, the customer's coming- he has to do something *now* with stuff he either has on hand or can get ASAP, and he needs something with a nice steep learning curve, no time to "master" a product or refine technique. No, the conditions aren't optimal but he has to deal with the situation as best he can.







sixty7mustang22 is dealing with unusually soft paint here... more aggressive measures (e.g., wetsanding/compounding/etc.) aren't the answer as he's micomarring it with stuff that should normally leave a good finish. He needs something milder, not something more aggressive.



I've had paint that was *so* soft I couldn't get a decent finish from #80 (let alone OCP)- the initial cut of it left marring that the product couldn't remove as it broke down-yeah, that was unexpected but it happened, I just had to deal with it as best I could. Sometimes you need a product that's so mild as to be *almost* nonabrasive. That's where products like #9 (and VM for that matter) can come in handy.



And sometimes the best you can do is some concealing with a wax topper. No, I would't like that either but you do what you can. What's to be expected the first time the owner washes that soft paint anyhow...think of how most people wash cars- marring city.



Velobard- This one is probably beyond what you and I were discussing...four months is a while. If the customer really cares all that much (pretty big "if" IMO, think of how most people are ;) ) then I bet it'd just have to get reshot. Heh heh, think he'd care *that* much?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wasn't able to just go out and get to many things and then learn how to use them.



You were right, #9 turned out to be what I needed. Thanks for you advice before.:D



One thing about this owener though, he does like to use paint friendly washing techniques. So, I shouwed hima few things and I am confident that he will be able to keep the wash maring down to a minimum.



Well, he does care a WHOLE lot and he knew about the possibility of a respray. e isn't the typical car owner. But, you should have seen his face when I showed him the final result and told him there was no need for a respray. As long as he took care of that cat.lol Resprays are a PITA!



Thanks for all the help everyone.:usa
 
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