I need more. This just isn't cutting it....

B

busyguy

New member
4 month old, black paint job. PPG "GLOBAL" series paint, w 1 1/2 gallons clear. CAR IS SCRATCHED and SWIRLED beyond belief.



I'm using the PC, the edge orange light cutting pad, and #83. This isn't doing what i want fast enough. I just spent nearly 2 hours of strait buffing on JUST THE HOOD to get the scratches out. I haven't even touched the #80 and M21 in those 2 hours.



DO I DARE grab the green edge pad? Is there a better/harsher polish?



I also have the pinnacle stage 2 polish...it seems to slightly LESS abraisive than 83..is that correct?
 
The PC is not fast, but you notice you haven't ruined anything yet. A rotary is fast, and fast at showing you your mistakes too. The green pad may get your the results you need. Give it a try on a small section. I've spent 8+ hours on cars that weren't bad.
 
8 hours...well, at this rate this car will take near 30 hours..... I just spent 2 on a flat hood, still not perfect, and not even touched with #80 or 21... I've gotta find a better way.
 
I think a better question is why it look the way it does?

what are you washing it with?

why would you spend that kind of money on a paint job

and destroy it in 4 months?



I don't use those pads or mag's so i am not of much help sorry
 
busyguy said:
4 month old, black paint job. PPG "GLOBAL" series paint, w 1 1/2 gallons clear. CAR IS SCRATCHED and SWIRLED beyond belief.



I'm using the PC, the edge orange light cutting pad, and #83. This isn't doing what i want fast enough. I just spent nearly 2 hours of strait buffing on JUST THE HOOD to get the scratches out. I haven't even touched the #80 and M21 in those 2 hours.



DO I DARE grab the green edge pad? Is there a better/harsher polish?



I also have the pinnacle stage 2 polish...it seems to slightly LESS abraisive than 83..is that correct?
Click to expand...



the pinnacle polish is not much more abrasive (if anything it is lighter) than your MG products . . . personally, would not bother.



you have a green (and possibly yellow) edge pad im assuming . . so try them out with the 83. it might cut faster. sure - you run the chance of very light marring, but that will be corrected when you do your finish polishing (in theory) Products will preform differently with more agressive pads . . .



MG has more agressive compounds . . but no need to buy any yet.... changing your pad just might help you get the job done a little faster. if the green pad yeilds no faster results . . . jump to yellow, then if nothing up your polish to a more agressive compound and then back your pad down to the orange, then the green then the yellow.



The way i see it you can spend way more time doing what you know works to take out your defects (which makes almost as much sense as watching grass grow), or you can up your pad level, up your product level to see of you can achieve results faster.



good luck . . .
 
HOW, WHY, or who let it get that way is not the question...and not an issue....HOW TO FIX IT IS THE QUESTION....thats why i'm here.



and about washing...Now using megs 00wash, megs plush wash mit, assorted tire/fender brushes, the no grit sytem, and a touchless wash...oh, and washing top to bottom obviously.





FDIZZLE- Thanks a lot man...thats what i was wondering... I wasn't sure if using a green or even yellow pad with the 83 was even a possiblility......



Is there an order of determining when to up your product? Do you up your pad level till out, THEN up the polish? Oh, and what megs product is the "next step"??



thanks again.
 
I'd go to a 4" pad system and a more aggressive product, maybe something from Hi-Temp. IIRC Meg's only offers a slightly more aggressive product than #83 for use by PC (the newly reformulated #2).



But IMO a few hours per panel isn't unusual or excessive when working by PC, this stuff just takes as long as it takes. I've spent hours per panel lots of times :nixweiss
 
busyguy said:
HOW, WHY, or who let it get that way is not the question...and not an issue....HOW TO FIX IT IS THE QUESTION....thats why i'm here.
Click to expand...





True and sorry if that came out wrong

I just don't want you to spend all this time polishing

and be back in the same place in 6 month because of bad wash habits
 
I've done a lot of cars like yours and a couple hours a panel sounds about right with a PC. I would recommend PoorBoys SSR 3 if things are really bad. I find this to be probably the most aggressive compound you can safely use with a PC. It's much more aggressive than #83 and does paint correction much faster. You will get a little hazing with it but that will quickly clear up with a mild polish. A PC is much slower at paint correction than a rotary polisher, so you will need some patience.
 
BigJIm- no worries man, it was late and i was frustrated..lol. I live in a VERY VERY dusty place, and my methods of washing were TERRIBLE...Thats where 1/3 or 1/2 came from.



Second, i took it to a place to have it wet sanded, and polished(but no wax/sealant because i wanted to let the paint cure for a few months.) The car came out of the wet sanding free of orange peel it previosly had, but had "spider webs" EVERYWHERE. I MEAN EVERYWHERE. Because i got a "deal" and its been a few months, i cant go back and complain now that i know better, so here i am!!



And its starting to sound like a couple hours per panel is not uncommon...DAMN.... I'll look into the ssr poorboys...thanks again guys!!
 
for heavy correction I use a rotory with a 100% wool pad. I use Presta ultra cutting creme or Presta chroma 1500 polish depending on how bad the finish is. It usually takes 2 minutes per panel and the finish comes out like GLASS! I then use Menzerna 106ff and the pc to finish out the swirls left behind from the rotory. The end results are breathtaking!
 
Accumulator said:
I'd go to a 4" pad system and a more aggressive product, maybe something from Hi-Temp. IIRC Meg's only offers a slightly more aggressive product than #83 for use by PC (the newly reformulated #2).



But IMO a few hours per panel isn't unusual or excessive when working by PC, this stuff just takes as long as it takes. I've spent hours per panel lots of times :nixweiss
Click to expand...





and listen to this guy's advice on the 4'' pad system . . . if you are really having just the hell of a time removing defects, cutting down to the 4'' pad really makes the pc more effective . . .



there are also sporadic accounds of being able to burn paint with the PC - and in fact - accumulator . . didnt you try that theory out on your van or a test panel or somthing and verified it? i cant recall the thread . . . sorry.



the pc will take you a long time, but its safe, and worth the effort . . .:xyxthumbs
 
rydawg said:
for heavy correction I use a rotory with a 100% wool pad. I use Presta ultra cutting creme or Presta chroma 1500 polish depending on how bad the finish is. It usually takes 2 minutes per panel and the finish comes out like GLASS! I then use Menzerna 106ff and the pc to finish out the swirls left behind from the rotory. The end results are breathtaking!
Click to expand...



I kinda agree witht the rotary part. A rotary most likely put those marks in the paint and I don't think a PC/Cyclo will remove them. Without looking at it, it's hard to say, but if you are spending 2 hours on the hood with a PC just to get scratches out, I would have given up after that and picked up a rotary. If you have access to one, it might be a life/paint saver. Good luck.
 
Some refinishes become very hard after fully cured.

The new Optimum Hyper Compound is much more aggressive then the old formula with no dusting and a long working time. I would recommend this with your orange pad.
 
fdizzle said:
there are also sporadic accounds of being able to burn paint with the PC - and in fact - accumulator . . didnt you try that theory out on your van or a test panel or somthing and verified it? i cant recall the thread . . . sorry...
Click to expand...



Heh heh, it was an accidental discovery :o



I dunno if it was a real *burn* or just a case of taking off too much clear, but I did damage a spot on my MPV with the PC/4" Cyclo Green/3M Pi-III 05933. I was trying to make just *some* improvement on a really bad scratch (the kind that I knew really needed spotted in) but I go too aggressive and made things look worse instead of better. The PC/4" combo can do some serious work, sure surprised me!



I dunno if the rotary route is something busyguy wants to try at this time :nixweiss and I'd hesitate to point him towards some seriously aggressive approach as I dunno if this is a paintjob he wants to do his learing on.



I'd probably just tackle it one panel at a time and I'd shoot for "better" rather than "perfect". I'd probably use a mix of Hi-Temp EC + 1Z Ultra with an orange pad and then follow up with 1Z Paint Polish on a polishing pad and see how it looked at that point.
 
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