I know i'm doing something wrong, but dont know what. How do i correct?

A

abashoe

New member
Hi all,



This weekend I attempted polishing machine for the first time. Overall it was fun, but I made some mistakes.



Details

1999 Imola Red BMW M Coupe

Griots Polisher (newer model)

4" Uber Orange pad

M105



I am definitely doing something wrong, but dont know what. Since I don't know what I'm doing wrong, I can't correct. Can someone please chime in and help me out.



Questions

1. Removing RIDS more easily

Swirls I dont have a problem with, but I'm having difficulty removing RIDS. Internet pictures sure do make it look easy. I'm going at them w/ a 4 inch Uber orange pad and M105, speed 5 and what I feel is enough pressure.



I made about 4 section passes and I even tried just making very small concentrated passes.



They are improving, but are still there. I can't feel them w/ my fingers. Any advice? More aggressive pad? More pressure?



2. I'm getting "disconnected" pig tails

I'm getting what look like crescent marks or semi circles that are fairly close together. When they appear, there is always more than 1. They're close together, but not connected like a traditional pig tail (im guessing because I'm using a dual action)



About a dozen times the polisher did accidentally jerk and skip across the surface. When that happened I got pretty scared and checked the area. I was expecting to see that I described above, but to my surprise they werent there. Maybe I didnt look hard enough?



What exactly am I doing wrong to induce these? To much pressure? Dirty pad? The skipping?



3. Maybe i'm crazy but I dont see any holograms after Orange/105?

Is that even possible? I'm guessing I dont know what I'm looking for.



I have one overhead regular light bulb and one overhead flourescent tube in the garage.



Time for a better light?



4. I'm killing pads while cleaning

I turn the polisher upside down and and press my brush into it for a sec, then release. Most of the time I can clean it, but once it a while I end up taking material out of the pad.



I'm using the standard brush; the one w/ the orange handle and plastic bristles. When using a terry towel i did even worse damage. I think the surface area of the towel that I'm pressing into the pad needs to be greater.





5. How long does it take you?

I spent about 7 hours polishing and still didnt get to the passenger door, passenger rear quarter panel, trunk, and rear bumper! My car is an MCoupe. I can't even imagine how long an SUV takes.



Thanks all,

-al
 
The 105 doesnt use the diminishing abrasives. If you are trying to polish until the polish has broken down, you may be dry buffing. Are you letting up on the pressure as you approach your final passes?



For the 4" pads, i wouldnt even bother cleaning them. You need like 4-5 of those. You could clean them as you go and set them out in the sun so when you are on your last pad, the first one is more or less dry.



If this is your first go around with polishing, and more importantly the 4" pads, be careful. You can remove enough CC if you just wont let a scratch be a scratch. Know when to say when. The M105 is the compound right? If it is, it is pretty abrasive, be careful with the 4" pads.



To remove those little half moon shaped things, use a white pad (5-6") and some lighter polish.



As far as time, well it takes as long as it takes. Ive spent 2 8 hour days on my pickup truck just trying to get every single little tiny doo dad out of my paint, but that was me not being very good, and being way to picky for a work truck. I can do a 2 step polish on the wifes car in about 4 hours including the wash and tire dressing. That doesnt include looking over the paint in different lights and obsessing about it. It is the way it is lol.



I have no idea how people can make money detailing cars. It would take me 8 hours on 1 if i had to do interiors lol.
 
Some thoughts on a couple.



1. Some RIDS are deeper than you think. There is a point of diminishing returns where you just move on and maybe come back later.



2. I have experienced this when I overworked the polish. I assumed it is caused by the pad or dry polish. What is your work area size and how much polish are you using? M105 works fast for me -- barely 3 passes with a UDM and soft buff 2.0 pad.
 
I dont know...over 38 years and I have never washed a pad. I always use a 7 inch pad whether it is a finish pad or a wool nylon blend for rejuvenation. I have four power polishers 2 Makitas and two Hitachis...just for the record the Hitachi takes more of a beating. It sounds like you need to learn to polish with a tried and TRUE angle power polisher. There is no tricks to it....TRY it. Put a 7 inch backing pad on on your variable polisher adjust the speed @ 1400 rpms and go @ the hood with you favorite LOW abrasive cleaner wax. You will soon see the capabilities of your new found polisher. If there is product build up use a damp microfibre to remove any shadows and even the hood with the FLAT palm of your hand. In the end you will have to learn to polish with a PROFFESSIONAL tool. It should take about an hour or an hour and ahalf TOPS to make that car pristine with awheel. NO MORE TIME THAN THAT. If I spend more than 3.5 hours on any detail, I LOST MONEY! You can learn to polish like a pro ONLY IF YOU HAVE AT IT. You cant change the substraight surface without friction and speed. Just my suggestion. Search "expertautopolishing" and look @ the red cars in my photo gallery. GOOD LUCK!
 
abashoe said:
Hi all,







5. How long does it take you?

I spent about 7 hours polishing and still didnt get to the passenger door, passenger rear quarter panel, trunk, and rear bumper! My car is an MCoupe. I can't even imagine how long an SUV takes.



Thanks all,

-al
Click to expand...





i was wondering the same thing after doing my first 2 details this past weekend,saturday it was a black car and it took me almost 12 hours just on the outside!!! i did a 2 step with M105/205 and then wax then sunday i Did a ONE step with M205 on a pick up truck and it took the same amount of time! ,i couldn't believe it and normally i'd do 2 cycles of 3-4 passes with M205 and on the car i did 1 cycle with 105 and 1 sometimes 2 with 205. Is this normal for new guys or ...???
 
My average complete detail takes 3.5 hours almost to the minute. If it is a PIG stye it can take up to 5 for a Suburban with three rows of seats. I get 325 for a stye Subarban. I get 275.00 for a TRASHED car. They usually take me 3.5 hours. With paint correction if needed! That would be 78.57 per hour. Dealer cars for example, take me 1.5 to 2 hours for the exterior only. I do alot of BLACK because I am accustomed to fixing the detailers goofs who is employed for Lexus here. Good thing for his attempts ....It gives me job security. I work for myself of course. I charge the dealer 120.00 for the 2 hours and it takes me less than two hours. AGAIN 60.00 bucks an hour. You have to know what you want to accomplish on each vehicle...what does it need ? How can I save time should be the question in your head @ all times.
 
You wont have to spend 12 hours on an exterior if you learn to polish professionally. I did a BLACK Porsche on Saturday and finished up with the traditional black sponge pad. I told the customer not to wipe it down because it was so perfect he would mark it up with his microfibre. After I left HE WIPED IT DOWN and marked the entire job up with a contaminated cloth. OPTICAL PERFECTION ON the surface CANNOT BE DONE BY HAND! In fact if you wax it by hand and move it to the SUN who is the ultimate boss you will see FINGER MARKS! This is a steady customer so I went back to listen to him cry and I repolished it.
 
Bunky said:
Some thoughts on a couple.



1. Some RIDS are deeper than you think. There is a point of diminishing returns where you just move on and maybe come back later.



2. I have experienced this when I overworked the polish. I assumed it is caused by the pad or dry polish. What is your work area size and how much polish are you using? M105 works fast for me -- barely 3 passes with a UDM and soft buff 2.0 pad.
Click to expand...



Thanks Bunky. I guess maybe my RIDs are too deep. On regular swirls the M105 was able to take care of them fairly quick. I would say 3-4 section passes.
 
paintxpert said:
You wont have to spend 12 hours on an exterior if you learn to polish professionally
Click to expand...





so what would be some tips that you'd recommend? i know working with the PC takes more time obviously but still i must be doing something wrong that's costing me time.
 
JBM said:
I have no idea how people can make money detailing cars. It would take me 8 hours on 1 if i had to do interiors lol.
Click to expand...



Simple, you charge $$$ for it, or you charge through the work.



I know some local shops that charge 200-300 for a complete detail and will spend 8-10hrs on the car. They're backed up for weeks at a time. I'm not breaking my back for $20-30/hr, even if it means a steady stream of customers.



I know some other local shops that charge 200-300 for a complete detail and have it done in 3hrs, max speed on a rotary, hollograms everywhere, etc... Total crap job, but hey, most people can't tell the difference it seems.



For myself, I do some of my former business associates cars, and I'll usually spend 10hrs ont he exterior, no interior, and charge 600-700. Works out to, usually, $60-80/hr.
 
so i guess i did OK spending around 11 hrs doing an exterior 80-90% paint correction on that car then.
 
abashoe said:
Hi all,



This weekend I attempted polishing machine for the first time. Overall it was fun, but I made some mistakes.



Details

1999 Imola Red BMW M Coupe

Griots Polisher (newer model)

4" Uber Orange pad

M105



I am definitely doing something wrong, but dont know what. Since I don't know what I'm doing wrong, I can't correct. Can someone please chime in and help me out..
Click to expand...



I have an e36 M3 of that vintage that I bought in well-used condition and then polished to as good as it can be using various methods (lots of experimenting). The clear on those is *VERY had. It's not *you*



Don't shoot for perfection. I did, and as a result I overthinned the clear in some spots (no cut-throughs but my ETG isn't happy with what I did).



Questions

1. Removing RIDS more easily

Swirls I dont have a problem with, but I'm having difficulty removing RIDS. Internet pictures sure do make it look easy. I'm going at them w/ a 4 inch Uber orange pad and M105, speed 5 and what I feel is enough pressure.



I made about 4 section passes and I even tried just making very small concentrated passes.



They are improving, but are still there. I can't feel them w/ my fingers. Any advice? More aggressive pad? More pressure?
Click to expand...



That's not aggressive enough. Switch to a LC PFW pad or you'll have to do *many* more passes. It *can* be done with M105/orange but it'll take a long time. Even the PFW will take a few section passes. I did some wetsanding just because my *rotary* was taking too long even with rocks-in-a-bottle compound!



But again, know when to say "good enough" and don't take off too much clear or you'll never be able to polish it again.



2. I'm getting "disconnected" pig tails

I'm getting what look like crescent marks or semi circles that are fairly close together. When they appear, there is always more than 1. They're close together, but not connected like a traditional pig tail (im guessing because I'm using a dual action)...What exactly am I doing wrong to induce these? To much pressure? Dirty pad? The skipping?
Click to expand...



In this case, those sound like they were caused by clumping of M105 on the pad. Gotta clean the pads *VERY* well and frequently with the DA/4"/M105 approach.



About a dozen times the polisher did accidentally jerk and skip across the surface. When that happened I got pretty scared and checked the area. I was expecting to see that I described above, but to my surprise they werent there. Maybe I didnt look hard enough?
Click to expand...



Eh..just get the hang of doing this and don't let the polisher get away from you ;)



3. Maybe i'm crazy but I dont see any holograms after Orange/105?

Is that even possible? I'm guessing I dont know what I'm looking for
Click to expand...
.



You don't have *holograms* but you do have micromarring/hazing that I term "pseudo-holograms". To see it you either need a 3m SunGun in a dark environment or you need to inspect in sunglight at just the right angle. Don't worry about it; the next polishing step will remove it anyhow.



Yes, you *do*need to do a follow up polish. The M105 doesn't leave things as nice as you might think.

I have one overhead regular light bulb and one overhead flourescent tube in the garage.



Time for a better light?
Click to expand...



Yeah. Absolutely. But those lights (used independently of each other) will still be somewhat useful.



At least get a halogen light and I'd get an incandescent troublelight too. If you have a few hundred $ to blow I'd get a SunGun but that's just me and you probably don't want to see what it will show you anyhow ;)



Pull it out in sunlight, especially at a sharp angle, and see what that uncovers.

4. I'm killing pads while cleaning

I turn the polisher upside down and and press my brush into it for a sec, then release. Most of the time I can clean it, but once it a while I end up taking material out of the pad.



I'm using the standard brush; the one w/ the orange handle and plastic bristles. When using a terry towel i did even worse damage. I think the surface area of the towel that I'm pressing into the pad needs to be greater.
Click to expand...



I don't use those brushes to clean my (DA) pads. I clean them by spraying them with #34 and wiping somewhat gently with a towel and my towels sure don't do any damage. If you have an air compressor that's very helpful. Or just wash the pads out with Dawn and use another one while the wet one is drying. You shouldn't be messing up the pads; I suspect you're being way too aggressive as that just leaves me :confused:



You *MUST* clean out the M105 remains and the cut-off clear. That's simply part of using M105 the way you're trying to. But you gotta be gentle about it. More frequent cleaning sounds in order.



5. How long does it take you?

I spent about 7 hours polishing and still didnt get to the passenger door, passenger rear quarter panel, trunk, and rear bumper! My car is an MCoupe. I can't even imagine how long an SUV takes.
Click to expand...



As JBM said, it simply takes as long as it takes. I know, but that that's the honest answer.



Get some more aggressive pads and work one area until it's the way you want it. Then move on to the next area.



I've done maybe six section passes with M105/PFW *after* wetsanding the worst marring away with ~2K grit. I've hit some panels that many times with the rotary/twisted wool/3M Extra Cut. It just takes what it takes until a) the marring is corrected, or b) the clear gets so thin you quit for that reason, or c) you give up and get on with the rest of your life. So do what you think is worth doing *for you*, then go back over it with M205 (or somesuch), and wax it and get on with life ;)



You can't imagine how long I spent on my M3, let alone my YukonXL. Don't spend that kind of time on *your* car; get it sorta-nice and then drive the wheels off of it.



And don't give one second's consideration to how long other people spend or how nice cars look in Click & Brag. Pretend you're in a vacuum where all that exists/matters is how things go for you ;)
 
Accumulator said:
And don't give one second's consideration to how long other people spend or how nice cars look in Click & Brag. Pretend you're in a vacuum where all that exists/matters is how things go for you ;)[/COLOR]
Click to expand...



Ahhhh! Put like that it does take a bit of pressure off doesn’t it? Wise words Accumulator. And that’s exactly the philosophy I’ll be applying to my own project. :2thumbs:
 
Accumulator,



Thanks again for another awesome post. Double thanks for being so thorough and answering all my questions.



I thought I was doing something wrong, but I guess the clear on our cars is that tough. Some more aggressive pads are on their way. If those don't work im going straight to PFW!



I guess I have to be more adamant about the cleaning. Unfortunately I dont have an air compressor so im stuck w/ letting the pads soak, rinsing them til the run off is clear, sticking them on the DA to give them a quick spin dry, then off to the sun.



What color is your e36? any pics?
 
abashoe said:
..I thought I was doing something wrong, but I guess the clear on our cars is that tough. Some more aggressive pads are on their way. If those don't work im going straight to PFW!
Click to expand...



Note that the PFW is actually quite *safe*. It doesn't get very hot and it's not too "oops!"-prone IME. Just don't get carried away with how user-friendly it is and let the polisher spin in one spot forever ;)

I guess I have to be more adamant about the cleaning. Unfortunately I dont have an air compressor so im stuck w/ letting the pads soak, rinsing them til the run off is clear, sticking them on the DA to give them a quick spin dry, then off to the sun.
Click to expand...



Yeah, this just goes with the territory when using M105. In your case, I'd get lots of pads (money well-spent IMO!) and..speaking of spending money :o If there's any way you can afford a Flex 3401 polisher you'd be *much* happier using that on your car's clear. I bought mine thinking "I already have too many of these polishers, big waste of money..." but *man* did it make the e36 job easier, completely changed my perspective on it.



Be careful spinning the pads on the DA, mine always launches them (into something dirty) even when the velcro is nice and healthy. The rotary works great for this, but not the DAs.

what color is your e36? any pics?
Click to expand...



No, sorry, I don't do the digital imaging thing. It's a Byzanz Metallic/black sedan. Pretty car, but it never really did it for me the way I'd expected and if/when I ever finish its never-ending reconditioning I'm gonna sell it. My old Ray Korman e30 M3 spoiled me ;) and I guess that I like my BMWs to be "four wheel motorcycles"...namely, something more like yours! Those M coupes are great and in hindsight I shoulda bought one of those instead of what I have now.
 
Nice selection of cars you've had. I hope to one day own an e30 M3. I debated on getting one instead of my mcoupe, but as I daily drive my car I needed something a bit more modern and reliable.



Thanks again for all the advice.
 
To clean my foam pads, I usually just take them to a faucet, rinse and soak them with warm water until the pads soften and then wring them out. I spray Meg's APC on them until they're saturated and then use my thumbs to work out the product and clear left on them. Usually takes several attempts to get them clean, but I just wring out the pad and set it in the sun or put it on my Griot's DA and put it on speed 6 to spin out the water. Never caused me any problems.



Just MAKE SURE you rinse the pads VERY well to get all of the APC out of them as I have a feeling that wouldn't be good for your product to have APC contaminating or thinning it out.
 
adrock2003- When I spin my pads dry, I hold the polisher in a plastic tub. I do it for the sling, but in your case it would be extra insurance regarding the DA throwing the pad off.



abashoe- Glad to help. And, heh heh, my Korman e30 *was* my daily driver/commuter except for in the winter. Had some [jerk] not rear-ended it in a big way I woulda driven the wheels off it.
 
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