I have fresh black paint, i'm a noob, and my head hurts....help!

B

busyguy

New member
I'm sorry for the noob post, but i've read as much as possible on this forum(even read the "guide to detailing") and the more i read the more my head hurts. There are so many options that i am baffled as to what will work best for my new paint job.



Three months ago i had my car painted with a very deep black color. The paint is PPG, Global series to be exact. I also had the painter use 1 1/2 gallons of clear(5 or 6 cotes) if that makes a difference. Now that the car has properly cured and been wet sanded twice i need to start caring for the paint.



I live in a very dusty place, and due to my work/school schedule i don't always care for my paint like i SHOULD. IE: too long between washes, waxes, etc.



1. Can someone PLEASE(I beg you!) give me a detailed list of products that you would recomend for a black paint job. Please give as much detail as possible, even brand/product names, as one more option will make my head explode!! Can you please line out the entire product line that i should buy, and recomendations on how to use it?





2. I'm addicted to tools and after coming on these forums i noticed that everyone has a polisher. I think having the proper tool will reduce time spent, therefore allowing me to care for thepaint more often.

It seems people like a certain porter cable model, but it also seems like everyone has a FEW different ones. Is it necessary to have different polishers(ie: a random orbit and a regular), or can i buy one nice one that will do everything i need? Also, should i buy a random orbit or just a polisher? Again, an exact model number and reason why i sould buy it would be greatly appriciated...



Thank you very much for any time/ideas you can throw my way. Usually i'd just troll the forums and figure it out on my own but i am beyond lost with the multitude of options.
 
I can understand with the plethora of options that you are probably overwhelmed... I was too :)



The best way to start would be to look at the Click and Brag section... people list the processes and products used so you'll quickly get an idea of what products are popular. Even reading through the "detailing product" forum will show you which options are popular.



You don't HAVE to buy a polisher now... especially because you have new paint, you have a great opportunity to care for and protect your paint properly from the start. Proper washing techniques combined with quality protection products (quality waxes and sealants) can greatly minimize the need for polishing.



:welcome: by the way!
 
It's very easy to get confused because there are so many different products on the market.



I shall start with the polisher (Q2): The polisher that most people use is the Porter Cable 7336/7424 or Meguiar's G100. They are all pretty much the same machine accept the size of the counter weight is different between models and the Meguiar's unit has a lifetime warranty. I don't really think you can go wrong with any of them.







Here’s where things get really complicated! (Q1) There are literally thousands of products on the market. Everyone has different needs and preferences. Personally I like Meguiar’s products whereas some people hate Meguiar’s and love Poorboys, Optimum, Duragloss, Prima, Menzerna, Klasse, Zaino, Zymol… the list goes on. I would highly recommend #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish for heavier swirl removal and #80 Speed Glaze. Because you said you don’t have a lot of time to care for your car I would recommend applying a sealant because they *typically* last longer. I personally use #21 Synthetic Sealant



Hope this helped



-Pat
 
Thank you guys for not flaming my noob questions.

Sneek- THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH!



Q2- can/are the "polishers" used for wax application/removal as well, or is that by hand? Also, are all polishers random orbit? If not, which is better/why?



Q1- That is EXACTLY the type of LEADS i need. What do you think of UPP Four Star sealant? I used the speed glaze 80 and UPP on my moms car and it seemed SUPER easy to use. Would you say #21 Synthetic Sealant compares to it?
 
sneek said:
It's very easy to get confused because there are so many different products on the market.



I shall start with the polisher (Q2): The polisher that most people use is the Porter Cable 7336/7424 or Meguiar's G100. They are all pretty much the same machine accept the size of the counter weight is different between models and the Meguiar's unit has a lifetime warranty. I don't really think you can go wrong with any of them.







Here’s where things get really complicated! (Q1) There are literally thousands of products on the market. Everyone has different needs and preferences. Personally I like Meguiar’s products whereas some people hate Meguiar’s and love Poorboys, Optimum, Duragloss, Prima, Menzerna, Klasse, Zaino, Zymol… the list goes on. I would highly recommend #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish for heavier swirl removal and #80 Speed Glaze. Because you said you don’t have a lot of time to care for your car I would recommend applying a sealant because they *typically* last longer. I personally use #21 Synthetic Sealant



Hope this helped



-Pat
Click to expand...



:werd: Optimum Poly seal might be another product you could look into. Light cleaning abilities, and nice - long term protection. I beleive it's also not to much of a pain to apply by hand.



You got new paint . . . im jealous . . .If I could only start from the beginning again . .
 
You can use the Random orbital to apply and remove wax.



Apply wax with a finishing pad(speed 3). Remove wax with a cutting pad and a microfiber bonnet over it (speed 5).



I like using a PC to apply wax because it requires so little effort and I believe that it yields better results
 
So are all polishers random orbit? If not, would it be safe to say i SHOULD buy the random orbit by PC as my "DO ALL" machine? thanks again
 
I'll give my .02 as to what I use -



For heavy swirling - a cutting pad with 3M Fine Cut Rubbing Compound

For moderate swirling/remove haze from the fine cut - polishing pad with 3M Perfect It III Machine Glaze. You can go right to wax from here.

Wax - Meguiar's #26, Meguiar's #16, Meguiar's NXT
 
busyguy said:
So are all polishers random orbit? If not, would it be safe to say i SHOULD buy the random orbit by PC as my "DO ALL" machine? thanks again
Click to expand...
No, not all polishers are random orbit; a rotary is a circular polisher only.



As a beginner a good random orbit would be a good polisher to start out with. They are much easier to use, have a very short learning curve, and with patience can be used to remove paint defects. But DON'T just buy a cheap single speed random orbit buffer, buy a PC (Porter Cable). You can buy one on-line from many different vendors that come as a kit (includes a backing plate and pads), or you can buy one from Lowes and then buy the backing plate and pads that you'll need.
 
Great. Thanks a lot guys. OK, back to the polisher.



I'm going to buy one tomorrow so i can get going on this car!!!



Would you guys agree that the Porter Cable 7424 Random Orbit is the BEST TOOL i can buy? Will that be the ONLY power tool i need, or do i need one that only spins in addition to the random orbit? Basically, will the random orbit do EVERYTHING i need?



Again i apologize for asking you guys to spell everything out for me... I'm just anxious to buy this and want to do it 100% right the FIRST TIME...



Next Q- I found the PC 7424 for $120, and i found the same tool with the "5.5 Pad KIt" for $185. Would i be better off just buying the tool, and getting the exact pads needed separatly, or should i go with the entire kit?
 
I would definetely get the Porter Cable. Also do a search on Optimum products and polishes. They are awesome! I recently swithched from Poorboys to Optimum polishes. I still use the other Poorboys stuff but the Optimum polishes blow me away. No dust at all.



Have you clayed your vehicle yet?
 
busyguy said:
Would you guys agree that the Porter Cable 7424 Random Orbit is the BEST TOOL i can buy? Will that be the ONLY power tool i need, or do i need one that only spins in addition to the random orbit? Basically, will the random orbit do EVERYTHING i need?
Click to expand...



The only other random orbit machine I would consider would be the Cyclo. I personally like it better than the PC, but it's also more expensive. I consider it to be slightly more aggressive than the PC while still being fairly idiot-proof. The PC should take care of most problems, but to cover absolutely everything you'd want the so-called "trinity"--PC, Cyclo, rotary. I'd probably just get the PC for now.
 
Ok, heres another couple of questions.



i looked up both the porter cable models recomended.... PC 7424 and the 7336. The first is listed as an automotive random orbit polisher, and the second is listed as a random orbit sander. Are they really the same thing, just labeled differently for different markets, or is one a better choice than the other?



Also, can you guys recomend a kit, or an entire list of pads/bonnets(or whatever else it will need) that i can buy with the polisher? I noticed they selll the 7424 with a 5.5 kit that costs 65 bucks more. Is that 65 well spent, or could i get a more customized and usefull set of accessories for that?
 
Do you guys think there is a better choice for a noob who doesn't wax as much as possible than



Meguires

#83

#80

#21 sealant



From what i hear i start w/ the 83 for the bad swirls. Then move to the 80 to "fine tune" the scratch removal. Finish w/ the #21 for sealant. Sound like a good choice?



OR should i still use the 83 and 80, but ditch the 21 for some polyseal???? HELP!!!!





Oh, and i purchased a claybar/spray kit from autozone. Its a 100g. bar and is blue. Does brand matter for clay or am i fine w/ what i have?
 
busyguy said:
Do you guys think there is a better choice for a noob who doesn't wax as much as possible than



Meguires

#83

#80

#21 sealant



From what i hear i start w/ the 83 for the bad swirls. Then move to the 80 to "fine tune" the scratch removal. Finish w/ the #21 for sealant. Sound like a good choice?



OR should i still use the 83 and 80, but ditch the 21 for some polyseal???? HELP!!!!





Oh, and i purchased a claybar/spray kit from autozone. Its a 100g. bar and is blue. Does brand matter for clay or am i fine w/ what i have?
Click to expand...





You seem to be having a tough time getting a firm answer so I'm going to try to lay it down here for you as best I can.



A bit about the clay...First off you should be okay on the clay as long as it is "fine" or "ultra fine" grade clay. If by some chance you got a "medium" grade clay (i.e. Clay Magic-Red or even worse Purple), return it and get the Clay Magic "blue/fine grade" bar, the Meguiar's Clay kit or the Mother's Clay kit. If you have one of the last three I mentioned, you are headed in the right direction. Remember, KEEP THE SURFACE LUBED!! Failure to do so will result in scratches which I'm sure you are trying to avoid. Anytime you see the working surface begin to discolor, fold it until you have a clean surface again. I recommend tearing the bar and only using half of it at a time. This is because if you drop your clay and it lands on the ground. It is trash. :wall Throw it away. You just picked up more contaminants than you could ever pick out of it whether you can see them or not. :furious:



Seeing as how you've had the car wetsanded twice, you shouldn't need to spend a ton of time on this step.



See the link below for use:



How to use clay magic detailing clay







Now, about the Polisher...We have BOTH the 7424 and the 7336. They are identical in that they have interchangeable parts and work the same way. The only difference that I can tell is that the 7424 comes with 5" AND 6" counterweights and the 7336 comes with the 6" counterweight only and a backerplate for adhesive sandpaper as well as two sanding disks. If you go with the 7336 you may just as well throw that stuff away. The 7424 is, in all reality the one you want to go with as it will come with a hook and loop backer plate (velcro) and the necessary counterweights although the 7336 will work with the proper attachments.



And last,PRODUCTS...We are not big fans of "off the shelf" products but I rarely hear anything bad about Meguiar's Professional line of products which you can pick up at most autoparts stores. They just have too many for us to fool with. Of the umpteen dozen products we have used, we really like the Klasse "twins",(Their All-In-One and Sealant Glaze"), but still have more products we want to try. Klasse products are pretty straight forward as far as application and removal however they contain ZERO abrasives. If you have scratches or swirls, you will need a pure polish first. They can hide alot of things but we prefer to remove as much as possible before laying either one of the twins down. That said, they may not be for you.

You'll find with experience that alot of the time the adage "Less is more" applies. You can work yourself into a frenzy trying to make an initial product selection which I like to call "paralysis by analysis" which, it seems, has already set in with you to some degree. :hairpull Don't fret. We've all been there.



As long as you select one of the products already mentioned or something in the next link provided, you should be satisfied with your results. Before you get started, post another question about the products you've selected and how to go about using them. You will get more specific insight to those products by detailers that have, and continue to use whatever it is you purchased. These guys know their stuff and are more than willing to help out with any of your questions. That's what this forum is all about.



Below is that "next link" I mentioned. It's the link to the Autogeek.net page for PC7424 Kits. If you place an order, put in the Coupon Code "HOLIDAY4" (exactly-all caps, no space) for 20% off your purchase. This is in addition to the "sale price". They also have a deal running through the end of today (11/28/06) with Coupon Code "FREEGIFT2" if your order is over $75.00 which gets you a "random" Car Care Pkg. valued @ $50.00. You may consider placing two orders if you need to to get both deals as you can only use one code per order. You'll need to decide which you'd rather have, 20% off everything or say 20% off your "large" order and the free gift on the another order over $75.00. Personnally, I'd take the 20% on everything as you'll have no idea what you'll be getting with the freebee.



Porter Cable 7424 Dual Action Polisher



Scroll 1/2 way down and see videos on how to use the PC, all the way down shows you the packages available. They have something for every budget. Get the most for your money while they have this deal going on. Whatever is feasible for you.



(:secret If you have the means, I'd probably go with the Pinnacle kit on the top right or the Poorboys kit on the bottom right. They should have all of what you could possibly need seeing as how you have a fresh re-paint)



We took advantage of the 20% off a substantial pad order today. Speaking of pads, we are switching from Lake Country/Wolfgang pads to The Edge 2000 System. You can't go wrong with the Edge 2000 pads. Then again, whatever pads they throw in the kit should suffice for now so don't feel like the Edge system is what you have to get right now.



Don't put so much time into product selection. Pick one product line and go. If you follow the process, you'll be amazed at the results regardless of your choice. Especially if you're new at this. You can do R&D on other products later. Right now, you just need to get that car protected. :cool:



Hope this helped!



Jason Boyer

Co-Owner/Tech. Adviser

Wet Werks Auto Salon

Austin, TX.





P.S. Sealants last much longer than waxes and are really coming around with the shine and depth they provide. I personally love a good Carnauba wax from time to time though as I feel that nothing is sexier than good "wax job". Ooohweeeeman!
 
thank you SOOOOOOOOO much!!!! You have eased my mind and headache some!!!!!



Last Q before i place an order!!! Typically i think that buying "kits" of anything is a waste of money as there is usually a bunch of crap that never gets used. Do you recomend any PAD KITS, or should i buy them individually?



I know there are certain polishing,waxing, and removal pads, but i don't know exactly WHICH and HOW many to get? I read you like the "edge" pads but is there an exact list of the pads(for example: 2 orange polish, 3 terry removal, etc. etc.)... thanks again.. If i were rich i'd pay you!!!



Edit: finding polishing, cutting, finishing, dual action backing plates, d.a. flexible plate, wool buffing pad, and orange light cuttin pad. UHHHHH. please just tell me which ones, and how many!!! thanks!!
 
busyguy said:
thank you SOOOOOOOOO much!!!! You have eased my mind and headache some!!!!!



Last Q before i place an order!!! Typically i think that buying "kits" of anything is a waste of money as there is usually a bunch of crap that never gets used. Do you recomend any PAD KITS, or should i buy them individually?



I know there are certain polishing,waxing, and removal pads, but i don't know exactly WHICH and HOW many to get? I read you like the "edge" pads but is there an exact list of the pads(for example: 2 orange polish, 3 terry removal, etc. etc.)... thanks again.. If i were rich i'd pay you!!!



Edit: finding polishing, cutting, finishing, dual action backing plates, d.a. flexible plate, wool buffing pad, and orange light cuttin pad. UHHHHH. please just tell me which ones, and how many!!! thanks!!
Click to expand...





I understand your concern but with these kits you will use everything you get eventually. If you buy a kit with the Edge 2000 system you will NOT need a backerplate as this system employs a quick-connect fitting that screws into the shaft on the polisher making each pad two pads-in-one. You'll be able to use both sides just by flipping it over. The pads do cost more each but not as much as two single-sided pads. If this is the route you decide to go, you will only need x1 pad in each color at the most and since your paint is new, you really shouldn't need the yellow (most aggressive) at all.





I'm going to put it out plain and simple. The pads included in the kits that also have chemicals will work fine for you. They put these kits together to work with each other. They wouldn't sell you a D.A. polisher, a set of polishes and then include pads that are no good or useless with the chemicals provided. True, they may not be the absolute "best" money can buy but you will be floored at the results you achieve with no previous experience. Only with time and experience will you become more proficient. We've all had to go through it. Do not worry about doing damage with the D.A. I've found that anything that you can do with a D.A., you can undo with that same D.A.





With each kit there are detailed instructions for that particular kit on the web-page. Follow them and you'll be stunned at what you have done. Select one kit and live with it. You can add more to your collection later.



I think you are trying to get the "best" of everything here your first time out (Pads, Chemicals, and Results), and not to burst your bubble, but that's a pretty unrealistic expectation. Only with time behind the buffer will you get proficient. Even then, at some point you just have to tell yourself, "that's as good as it's going to get short of a wet-sand, compound, polish, glaze, sealant/wax job".

My partner and I have over 30 years combined experience detailing in some way, shape, or form. We can spend countless hours on a car and still not be satisfied. (We're both just that anal)



Follow the instuctions for the kit you buy and then, if you aren't satisfied, put up another post stating the process you followed and request additional assistance.



I'm certain that if you follow the kits' instructions as they are laid out, you will achieve the results you desire.



As long as you don't use a rotory buffer and/or a heavy compound, you'll be fine. Don't make this any harder than it has to be. Relax. There are a ton of people here to help you out. If you are second guessing you're next step, stop and put up a post.



-J
 
Gotcha. I'm done freaking out..... Time to just do it!!!!



Well, i'm sure there will be a few more threads by me in the future asking more noob questions, but for now you have answered and reashured as much as possible!



Again, thank you!
 
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