imported_nbk13nw
New member
Yet another awesome post! Thanks Todd! I was always on the fence about just how to prime the pad properly. But the explanation and the pictures finally hit home for me.
How to a achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a DA polisher
- Thread starter DETAILKING
- Start date
bmw5541
New member
Great info Todd.
Thanks for posting.:clap:
Thanks for posting.:clap:
imported_Indy YZF
New member
Nice, my blue truck has about the same condition of paint as the HHR (polished last year), so this method will be a time saver and should get me the results I want. Great write up!
imported_glfahlc
New member
great write up todd as usual... how much would the process differ by using a rotary as i do...
imported_Bunky
New member
I will need to read this several times....
bufferbarry
New member
Thanks for taking the time to put this all together
imported_juliom2
New member
...an author in Auto Detailing. Maestro Todd Helme in tha house!!!!!
More than just basics. I like the mechanize approach for this lesson!
Thanks maestro!
More discussion ahead:drool5::thumbup::hurray:
More than just basics. I like the mechanize approach for this lesson!
Thanks maestro!
More discussion ahead:drool5::thumbup::hurray:
imported_Luster
New member
Excellent write up Todd. I have been using M105 as a one-step for several months now and I'm very impressed. Huge time-saver!
And to the nay-sayers I simply say... Until you try M105 using this method, you'll never know the joy of M105 as a 1-step polish!
ancing Dot:
And to the nay-sayers I simply say... Until you try M105 using this method, you'll never know the joy of M105 as a 1-step polish!
ancing Dot:imported_Kevin Brown
Jedi Master
:notworthy: Oh, man... there's gonna be a lot of paint polishing dudes that appreciate the information listed in this thread. Nicely done!
This article proves to me (and should to you) that, regarding paint polishing, Todd gets it. He certainly knows how to use any machine to its full potential. Remember- Todd used the rotary for all defect removal and polishing duties at one time. So did I. A lot has changed, and now even a beginner can create some pretty spectacular finishes using only the random orbital, a foam pad, and one buffing liquid.
There are several benefits that are created with pad priming, and Todd has pointed out two that are invaluable. Here are two more.
1. Most folks deduce that priming the pad at the onset of a polishing session is not a big deal. Think again!
Normally, most guys apply an X or O pattern of product to the pad, run the machine across the paint, and repeat. After two or three application cycles, the pad certainly looks primed (this statement assumes that enough product has been applied to fully coat the pad face in the first place).
Unless there is an overabundance of product being used, it is doubtful that the face has filled with buffing liquid (therefore mimicking the priming that would be achieved if done at the onset, as Todd has shown).
Further, a large group of people use a minimalistic approach, and use only four or five pea-sized dots of product to cut or polish with. In my opinion, (and obviously Todd's) this is a popular yet mechanically-inefficient approach.
Perhaps you're thinking, "Pad priming wastes product." Wrong! In my experience, I have found that it can extend the life of the pad during the polishing session as well as increase the working time per application of Meguiar's M105.
It may be tough to think of buffing liquid in this manner, but to understand the HUGE benefit of priming, you've got to keep in mind that the abrasives used in M105 are HARD. When packed tightly together (such as would be the case when priming), they can form a HARD BARRIER. This hard barrier can slow the ABSORPTION of the liquid ingredients used to make M105, effectively slowing liquid saturation of the pad. Anybody that has used a pad to the point of saturation knows that its ability to cut diminishes; the pad becomes only marginally resilient (liquid resides where air once did); the pad retains heat longer (liquid resides where air once did AGAIN), and; the added weight of the pad can throw the machine out of balance (like mud stuck to the inside of a car wheel).
Prime the pad as Todd as shown to minimize pad saturation and all associated effects.
2. Pad priming can extend the polishing cycle per application of M105.
If there are large areas of the pad available, M105 will eventually find its way into or onto those areas. I suppose this feeds into the theory that ample pad priming is achieved after a few application cycles, but there's no guarantee that there will be an even distribution of particles or liquid. The high speed motion of the machine can also pack abrasives together, so bridging of particles across several pad pores is not uncommon. This happens after the pad is primed, too, but at least we've filled in the pores to a large degree, and have thus created a pretty solid foundation for the loose particles and liquid to rest upon.
Inconsistently applied abrasives lead to inconsistent results.
Without priming, M105 seems to have a short working cycle- "It dries out fast", is a commonly seen comment. This is because the liquid ingredients of M105 soak into the foam pretty rapidly, while the abrasive particles attach to the membrane-like structure of the pad. So, without an inital priming, it seems as if M105 has "flashed off" or "dried out", when in fact, it has simply moved from the paint surface onto/into the pad.
Pad priming helps you avoid the false sense that M105 "dries too quickly".
This article proves to me (and should to you) that, regarding paint polishing, Todd gets it. He certainly knows how to use any machine to its full potential. Remember- Todd used the rotary for all defect removal and polishing duties at one time. So did I. A lot has changed, and now even a beginner can create some pretty spectacular finishes using only the random orbital, a foam pad, and one buffing liquid.
There are several benefits that are created with pad priming, and Todd has pointed out two that are invaluable. Here are two more.
1. Most folks deduce that priming the pad at the onset of a polishing session is not a big deal. Think again!
Normally, most guys apply an X or O pattern of product to the pad, run the machine across the paint, and repeat. After two or three application cycles, the pad certainly looks primed (this statement assumes that enough product has been applied to fully coat the pad face in the first place).
Unless there is an overabundance of product being used, it is doubtful that the face has filled with buffing liquid (therefore mimicking the priming that would be achieved if done at the onset, as Todd has shown).
Further, a large group of people use a minimalistic approach, and use only four or five pea-sized dots of product to cut or polish with. In my opinion, (and obviously Todd's) this is a popular yet mechanically-inefficient approach.
Perhaps you're thinking, "Pad priming wastes product." Wrong! In my experience, I have found that it can extend the life of the pad during the polishing session as well as increase the working time per application of Meguiar's M105.
It may be tough to think of buffing liquid in this manner, but to understand the HUGE benefit of priming, you've got to keep in mind that the abrasives used in M105 are HARD. When packed tightly together (such as would be the case when priming), they can form a HARD BARRIER. This hard barrier can slow the ABSORPTION of the liquid ingredients used to make M105, effectively slowing liquid saturation of the pad. Anybody that has used a pad to the point of saturation knows that its ability to cut diminishes; the pad becomes only marginally resilient (liquid resides where air once did); the pad retains heat longer (liquid resides where air once did AGAIN), and; the added weight of the pad can throw the machine out of balance (like mud stuck to the inside of a car wheel).
Prime the pad as Todd as shown to minimize pad saturation and all associated effects.
2. Pad priming can extend the polishing cycle per application of M105.
If there are large areas of the pad available, M105 will eventually find its way into or onto those areas. I suppose this feeds into the theory that ample pad priming is achieved after a few application cycles, but there's no guarantee that there will be an even distribution of particles or liquid. The high speed motion of the machine can also pack abrasives together, so bridging of particles across several pad pores is not uncommon. This happens after the pad is primed, too, but at least we've filled in the pores to a large degree, and have thus created a pretty solid foundation for the loose particles and liquid to rest upon.
Inconsistently applied abrasives lead to inconsistent results.
Without priming, M105 seems to have a short working cycle- "It dries out fast", is a commonly seen comment. This is because the liquid ingredients of M105 soak into the foam pretty rapidly, while the abrasive particles attach to the membrane-like structure of the pad. So, without an inital priming, it seems as if M105 has "flashed off" or "dried out", when in fact, it has simply moved from the paint surface onto/into the pad.
Pad priming helps you avoid the false sense that M105 "dries too quickly".
imported_Pats300zx
New member
Awesome write up Todd. Very well put together....:clap:
Jeff U
Member
Todd,
Very nice write up with solid information and great details!
Many people will sing your praises for the help and guidance. :notworthy:
One question, that paint did not look too bad to me and it seems jumping in with M105 kind of violates the "use the least aggressive polish" needed to get the job done?
Very nice write up with solid information and great details!
Many people will sing your praises for the help and guidance. :notworthy:
One question, that paint did not look too bad to me and it seems jumping in with M105 kind of violates the "use the least aggressive polish" needed to get the job done?
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
Another write-up for the Hall of Fame of Detailing............:wizard:
imported_RaskyR1
New member
Great write up Todd! Definitely going to have to give this a try!
Just a few questions for you though. Since it's my understanding that the "SMAT" abrasives in M205 are actually smaller than the ones in M105, would it make sense that the finish could be further improved by following with a similar technique as you outlined above using M205?
Also, Since I won't have time to try this for a while, how is the dusting with M105 during the finishing stage? The one thing I've always liked about M205 is that there is no dusting and clean up is a breeze.
Thanks,
Rasky
Just a few questions for you though. Since it's my understanding that the "SMAT" abrasives in M205 are actually smaller than the ones in M105, would it make sense that the finish could be further improved by following with a similar technique as you outlined above using M205?
Also, Since I won't have time to try this for a while, how is the dusting with M105 during the finishing stage? The one thing I've always liked about M205 is that there is no dusting and clean up is a breeze.
Thanks,
Rasky
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
In regards to the paint, the HHR wasn't too bad, although some of the water etching will require some pretty aggressive polishing to remove. To the point that when I do polish it (soon) I will not even worry about removing the etchings, just give it a quick once over with Meguiar's M86 So1o polish.
As far as using the least aggressive method approach, it is a little trickier to apply that adage to non-diminishing abrasives. Because more traditional abrasive polishes have to be broken down they are going to remove a certain amount of paint and require time to work.
With a non-diminishing abrasive the abrasive is so fine (finer then most finishing polishes) that they require time to work. It is better (IMO) to think of a non-diminishing polish as a finishing polish which has the potential to be very aggressive instead of an aggressive polish that finishes nicely. Again, because we are dealing with the finest abrasives available.
So the product's cut is highly dependent on the method and application. If you use M105 in a very non aggressive method you take advantage of the ultra fine, ultra gloss producing abrasives and the fact that their are so many abrasives interacting with the paint allows this to work very quickly. It only takes a handful of seconds to final polish the area vs. a minute or more to breakdown more traditional abrasives.
However the amount of abrasives requires that you clean the pad frequently, otherwise abraded paint will act abrasive and ruin the perfect finish you can achieve.
I would wager that running M105 on a finishing pad on speed 3.5 for 15-20 seconds is going to remove less (or equal) amount of paint as running a traditional finishing polish 1 minute or more on speed 5 or 6, so it's not
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
Great write up Todd! Definitely going to have to give this a try!
Just a few questions for you though. Since it's my understanding that the "SMAT" abrasives in M205 are actually smaller than the ones in M105, would it make sense that the finish could be further improved by following with a similar technique as you outlined above using M205?
Also, Since I won't have time to try this for a while, how is the dusting with M105 during the finishing stage? The one thing I've always liked about M205 is that there is no dusting and clean up is a breeze.
Thanks,
Rasky
Chad, I find that I can often achieve a similar finish (or better) with M105 on some paints. It is my understanding that M205 does use a finer abrasive (slightly) but I find that if I overrun M205 the finish quality degrades. The beauty of these polishes is that you can find what works best for you and in what case.
I would love to hear your thoughts on trying them back to back.
The dusting is still there (slightly) but since I am using this polish right after cutting the car is dusty anyways.
imported_Flash Gordon
New member
When I grow up I wanna be just like Todd. He is so smart @-)
imported_RaskyR1
New member
Thanks for the quick reply Todd. :soldier:
I admire your ability to break things down and come up with all these different techniques explaining how and why they work...I wish I had the ambition to do the same.
ut: