how the @$#% do you guys avoid swirls??

S

Swaptrex

New member
I'll start by saying I've done a ton of searching, google and autopia. I have a brand new GMC Siera 1500 CC that is my first new vehicle. So nice of GM, because it comes with swirls already in the paint from the factory (or from the dealer detailing it). Plus I'm so worried about the paint that i swear I'm creating swirls no matter what I do! I've been detailing on the side (for myself) for about 8 years, never ran a detailing business though. So I'm no pro, but no newb.



Here is my routine:



Washing

-2 buckets

-four star shampoo

-four star wheel cleaner

-MF Mitt

-Brush for below molding, roof, and bed



Drying

-squeegee

-absorber



Haven't done any wax yet, just clay and poly-sealant (spray then rinse).



My question is what can I do differently to avoid fine swirls on GM 50 white? The only place I notice the swirls so far is the hood in sunlight. I have a PC and rotary, but hope they're not needed for at least a year. Thanks in advance!
 
Among your list of equipment, I see 2 problems. The absorber and the squeegee. Get yourself a good waffle weave towel. You'll never totally eliminate swirls from occurring during washing and drying, but careful washing and drying techniques can help minimize them. Some paints are very soft and no matter what you do will be subject to easy swirling.
 
I think you can honestly almost eliminate swirls if you use a careful enough wash procedure. The problem is that you might have to be so careful that it takes you 2hours to pat dry and carefully wash every section, so, at some point you're spending more time trying not to create swirls than you are removing them. If that's what you're looking for I would take the above suggestions and pat-dry. I might even use two different wash mitts and dispose of them often. Bottom line however, paint is delicate, and dirt is basically very small sized pieces of rock and debris. causing agitation or brushing a abrasive object over a soft surface will cause defects on some level.



You want a swirl-free car with little or no effort? Put it in a vacuum sealed chamber and never drive it.
 
First: ditch the squeegee. As stated, careful drying is important. A good towel, very light touch, and a little QD sprayed on the wet surface can help lubricate and reduce streaking. But even the most cautious methods will still induce some swirls over time. Always parking in the shade helps.:biggrin1:
 
Absorber and the squeegee as other have said may not be the best way to dry a car but why use a brush for the lower panels and roof
 
swaptrex- Welcome to Autopia!



I don't have the time to go into my wash routine here/now, but maybe somebody will post a link to one of my posts about it.



Short answer: I use a foamgun to provide constant flushing/lubrication, and I use minimal contact pressure with the wash medium. My approach is to "dislodge and flush". If my rinse bucket has dirt in it at the end of a filthy-vehicle wash, I figure I botched it up.



The idea (IMO) is that you have to avoid pressing dirt against the paint (like..with a mitt when it's worn like a glove) and then moving it under that pressure (the normal "rub paint with mitt" techique). And I'd CD-test that brush you're using on the roof to make sure it won't mar paint in-and-of itself.



I dunno if the drying media are really all *that* much to blame; if the paint is *clean* there's nothing there for the blade/absorber to drag across the paint to cause scratches. I always assume (uh-oh...assumptions) that most marring happens during the wash itself. But yeah, you'd do yourself a favor if you quit using that stuff and switched to very soft waffle weave microfibers ("WWMF"s).





Oh, and that lack of wax is likely to make dirt/etc. stick to the paint, requiring more aggressive wash techniques, with in turn are more likely to cause marring.
 
Thanks so far guys.. and Accumulator thanks for the great info and the welcome.... even though I've been here since 2006 :chuckle:
 
I have a black Honda S2000. I have given up trying not to instill swirls in the paint. I know this is Autopia heresy. But it is impossible for me to keep this car swirl free. Perhaps Accumulator could do it but I can't!



All I can do is what I can do. I try to keep the car looking good. I wash my car according to two-bucket guidelines. But no matter what I do, the swirls come.



As I said, I know this is Autopia heresy ... but to hell with swirls. They are as inevitable as death and taxes.
 
akimel said:
I have a black Honda S2000. I have given up trying not to instill swirls in the paint. I know this is Autopia heresy. But it is impossible for me to keep this car swirl free. Perhaps Accumulator could do it but I can't!



All I can do is what I can do. I try to keep the car looking good. I wash my car according to two-bucket guidelines. But no matter what I do, the swirls come.



As I said, I know this is Autopia heresy ... but to hell with swirls. They are as inevitable as death and taxes.
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I think you should just give the car to me then Al. :car:



How have you been my friend?
 
One thing I do that helps - never ring out your wash mitt into a bucket. Wash a section, ring it out on the driveway, into the rinse buck and rake each side over grit guard, ring out onto the driveway, into suds bucket, rake over grit guard on each side, repeat. Your suds bucket will be perfectly clean doing this, and your rinse bucket will barely collect any dirt itself. Less contamination on the wash medium.



I prefer to use a sponge. Different theories here, but I like a sponge because I can see that the surface is clean. After rinsing from a panel, I can quickly glance and see there is no contamination on the surface of a sponge but I can't do that with a bunch of microfiber fibers on a mitt. I use a sponge that is two years old, it has seen over a hundred washes, and it looks as clean as the day I took it out of the package.
 
In my experience, swirls rarely get created during the actual washing phase. The whole two bucket, rinsing in between and all that is a lot of extra effort for very little gain. As long as you do a good job rinsing before you wash, preferably with a PW, you won't get marring. It's silly to me that you would get marring from dirty water when you are rubbing much more concentrated dirt on your paint when you first touch it. The physics just aren't there for me. I certainly support thoroughly cleaning your wash media in your soap solution to get the dirt out, but anything else gets into the diminishing returns department.



That said, drying, especially with traces of dirt left on the paint or unsuitable media is a huge source of swirling. I don't like the idea of a squeegee at all and there are much better tools than the absorber. QDing while drying is also a good idea.
 
I will largely agree with Dan. I tend to think that 'swirls' or straight hairline marks, at least, will be created anyway.



I put this down to the fact that rain and the particles in it, along with the existing dirt on the car, are swept across the paint when the vehicle moves.



Proper washing always helps of course to keep damage to a minimum. I don't use 2 buckets, but I hit my mitt with my PW between panels (parts of panels actually).



In the end my wash bucket is clean, so that is a good sign for me.



In a nut shell most probably better learn to leave with swirls and exercise damage control with the great advice given here.
 
Upgrading your drying media would be first. Also, try using a product like Sonax High Speed Wax, you apply this to wet paint after you rinse the car, then wipe down with a microfiber drying towel. This ads a barrier of protection, and really makes it easy to dry the car.
 
swaptrex said:
Drying

-squeegee

-absorber
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I'm here to make you feel better swaptrex. I use a squeegee and the Absorber, and my car stays swirl free, for the most part. Over time swirls are a part of life, so a once a year touch-up will be necessary. But my thought is the same as a few others here, swirls come from the washing, not the drying, again, for the most part.



You won't know how well your washing techniques are doing until you remove the swirls the dealership gave you though. Time to polish with your DA!
 
.. I've been here since 2006
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Heh heh, I can see that ***umptions are biting me something fierce on this thread (see below)! Man, I sure read too much into your post count, huh?!?



With all the feedback you've received, it'll be intersting to see if you can minimize subsequent marring. If you start trying with something like an AirWand (I love mine, but it works better/worse with different LSPs), maybe you could pretty much take the whole drying-issue off the table.



Accumulator said:
... I always assume (uh-oh...assumptions) that most marring happens during the wash itself..
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-AND-



In my experience, swirls rarely get created during the actual washing phase.
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See how opinions differ! Lots of variables and I sure won't :argue that you're wrong!



Also see what happens when one ***umes stuff :o



ALSO see how effective the cyber-censors are :eek: That's what I get for being a smart-aleck, huh?



Ch96067 said:
I tend to think that 'swirls' or straight hairline marks, at least, will be created anyway.



I put this down to the fact that rain and the particles in it, along with the existing dirt on the car, are swept across the paint when the vehicle moves...
Click to expand...



Now that one I will (good-naturedly ;) ) :argue with, if only because I let my vehicles get utterly filthy, like no Autopian would believe, drive 'em long distances in that condition, and still keep them marring-free for ages. And when I do get marring it's *always* something from the wash/dry.



I guess that once again there are a zillion pertinent variables, but I've simply never experienced that "airstream marring", not once. I can clearly see where that kind of thing is going on (streaks in the filth that conform to the airflow over the vehicle), but those areas wash up fine and there's no marring there.



Akimel said:
I have a black Honda S2000. I have given up trying not to instill swirls in the paint. I know this is Autopia heresy. But it is impossible for me to keep this car swirl free. Perhaps Accumulator could do it but I can't!
Click to expand...



I'm almost tempted to say I'd like to try....but nah :grinno: I think you know what I'd do with a vehicle that turned out to have stupid-soft paint ;)
 
VR8 said:
I'm here to make you feel better swaptrex. I use a squeegee and the Absorber, and my car stays swirl free, for the most part. Over time swirls are a part of life, so a once a year touch-up will be necessary. But my thought is the same as a few others here, swirls come from the washing, not the drying, again, for the most part.



You won't know how well your washing techniques are doing until you remove the swirls the dealership gave you though. Time to polish with your DA!
Click to expand...



In everyone's opinion should I polish it with the DA?



I have a couple different swirl removers, cleaners, sealants, and the usual color pads.
 
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