How soon after repainting to polish, wax etc?

Anthony Orosco said:
Gassing out can pass through the clear thus it can pass through a layer of temporary wax. My whole point is that wax is no where near as durable nor as tightly cross linked as paint thus it is far more "porous"....hence gasses can pass through it.



As already noted though, there may be no way to convince people of their view, whichever it may be. I can say though having spoken now with 3 different paint chemists they all tell me that wax does not inhibit gassing out.



Anthony
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Anthony, you certainly have my attention on this one. Please understand, I'm not disagreeing with you, but just getting clarification and trying to better understand where you're coming from.



You do understand by the above comments, this goes against pretty much every body shop that I and maybe 95% of the people here have talked to. We've all been told to wait before waxing the surface, whether it be a polymer or carnauba type product. Again, I ask, why then do paint manufacturers tell the consumer to wait? There must be a reason. I assume that reason is they do feel that waxing will SEAL or partly SEAL the surface, thus not letting the paint to breath/fully cure.



If I could talk to the 3 chemists you talked to, I would be asking them the same questions I'm asking you. In other words, don't take what I'm saying personaly.
 
III said:
Anthony, you certainly have my attention on this one. Please understand, I'm not disagreeing with you, but just getting clarification and trying to better understand where you're coming from.



You do understand by the above comments, this goes against pretty much every body shop that I and maybe 95% of the people here have talked to. We've all been told to wait before waxing the surface, whether it be a polymer or carnauba type product. Again, I ask, why then do paint manufacturers tell the consumer to wait? There must be a reason. I assume that reason is they do feel that waxing will SEAL or partly SEAL the surface, thus not letting the paint to breath/fully cure.



If I could talk to the 3 chemists you talked to, I would be asking them the same questions I'm asking you. In other words, don't take what I'm saying personaly.
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You ask legitimate questions and I would be a real dillweed if I would take personal offense to any questions asked....so no offense taken by your questions.



I used to also tell everyone to wait 30 days, don't wax it, don't polish it. Then some years ago I meet Doctor G. from Optimum and began asking him all types of questions regarding paint. I was also asked to go to the Dallas Chevy truck plant and train or assist the line people in how to use some new polishes. These truck came directly out of the paint areas ad cycled through the inspection area where people then spotted defects, sanded them and then polished them out with DA's.



I then got to speak with several other paint chemists and product manufacturers at the World Car Care Expo who all agreed that fresh paint can be waxed as long as it isn't a heavy solvent based type wax. Water based is fine. I also asked about the body shops who say to wait 30 days but that is more for their assurance that the consumer doesn't use the wrong products on the paint and then come back in for a do-over. After the 30 or 90 (some shops less) days they will no longer warranty the paint if something happens to it.



Like i said, I work with several body shops, we even paint bumpers and wheels almost daily in our shop, and a few hours after the work is done we wet sand it, polish it and wax it. Never had any issues with paint not fully curing.



I will post here the full context of a reply Doctor G. gave over at the Optimum Forums.



Thank you for bringing up this question. There is a great deal of confusion regarding polishing or waxing fresh paint. The majority of refinish paint supplied by PPG, Dupont, Sherwin Williams, and BASF (which covers over 90% of the market) is two component polyurethane paint. One component is polyisocyanate and the second component is polyol (acrylic polyol or polyester polyol). Whether these are waterborne (due to EPA requirements) or solvent borne (majority of what is still being used) once the two components react and form a polymer it is not affected by most solvents (with the exception of paint removers such as methylene chloride).



As far as polishing goes, factory paint is baked and cured rapidly and is polished as it comes out of the paint booth. Refinish paint is generally not baked and is polished within a day of being painted. So polishing paint that is at least a day old is perfectly fine.



While refinish paint is about 90% cured within 24 hours, it does take up to 30 days for it to fully crosslink and cure. During this period, using solvent based waxes and sealants is not ideal since the solvents penetrate the paint and soften it and if the wax or sealant contains abrasives (the white powdery residue that is wiped off), it can cause micro marring on the softened paint. The best products to use during this period are therefore water based systems that are abrasive-free.



To sum these up, on paint that is less than one month old, you can use water based waxes or sealants that have no petroleum solvents or abrasives (leave no powdery residue). I hope that answers your question.
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Hope that helps,

Anthony
 
Yeah, that helped.



You wrote the following: "I also asked about the body shops who say to wait 30 days but that is more for their assurance that the consumer doesn't use the wrong products on the paint and then come back in for a do-over."



This makes perfect sense.
 
Wow I expected some answers to my question but damn! The thing that sucks is it is a leased car, so it gets turned in roughly 30 days from when it was painted, I wanted to give it a nice full detail before turning it in. It sounds like I can at least use spray wax on the hood right? I can live with just using detailing spray on the bumper.
 
I am about to have the hood and rear bumper painted on my car next week, so I have been following this thread. Unfortunately, it is leaving me confused...or maybe I'm afraid of the correct answers.



This is a black car (with a clear), and although I could reduce the use it gets over the next month or two, it still sits outside. I am worried about protecting it from water spots and birds, as well as the sand that that will be on the roads through April.



I have been protecting it with 915 and Z-8, and am eager to resume this on the new portions. Would either of these be ok? I saw the post about water based products being ok, and wasn't sure if these might work. Is there a specific product that is recommended?



Thanks!
 
harold97 said:
I am about to have the hood and rear bumper painted on my car next week, so I have been following this thread. Unfortunately, it is leaving me confused...or maybe I'm afraid of the correct answers.



This is a black car (with a clear), and although I could reduce the use it gets over the next month or two, it still sits outside. I am worried about protecting it from water spots and birds, as well as the sand that that will be on the roads through April.



I have been protecting it with 915 and Z-8, and am eager to resume this on the new portions. Would either of these be ok? I saw the post about water based products being ok, and wasn't sure if these might work. Is there a specific product that is recommended?



Thanks!
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I know everything I use is not water based, so I could tell you what not to use. Maybe someone could chime in whether 915 or Z-8 are ok. Personally I have only used spray wax on my hood and fenders(both were the repainted parts) and then do the usual polish and wax for the rest of the car. I noticed while washing the car how pathetic of a job the body shop guys did, freakin GM body shop losers! Good ole GM FTMFL.
 
III said:
Yeah, that helped.



You wrote the following: "I also asked about the body shops who say to wait 30 days but that is more for their assurance that the consumer doesn't use the wrong products on the paint and then come back in for a do-over."



This makes perfect sense.
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That's what I was thinking as well. Basically what I'm getting from this thread is not to use sealants on fresh paint until they fully cure in about 1-2-3-4 months. However, water-based waxes are okay. Most body shops just say don't put anything on because most of their customers wouldn't know which waxes are safe to use and which aren't.



The problem is there are a lot of experienced detailers in this thread saying not to put anything on, so I'm thinking this thread needs some more input to figure out what is the best choice. My car is about to be repainted, my painter says it ok to wax it with p21s after a few days...so I'm a little concerned because I have to drive it a long distance back home from the shop and want to keep it as protected as possible.
 
Can someone please provide a list of water-based waxes and solvent-based waxes. Tx.



Also, does anyone have any thoughts about the application of M80 to fresh paint. According to Meguiar's it has a paintable polymer. It does have a mild abrasive, though.
 
akimel said:
...does anyone have any thoughts about the application of M80 to fresh paint. According to Meguiar's it has a paintable polymer. It does have a mild abrasive, though.
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The seemingly mild abrasives in #80 have been too harsh for some fresh repaints of mine. The initial cut created not-so-micro marring that didn't get removed as the product breaks down. Huge PIA, very similar to using harsh rotary-only compounds by PC if you get my drift. After the paint hardened up for a few weeks this was no longer an issue. Things like this are why I maintain my position of erring on the side of caution.



Other than that #80 never caused any problems and the polymers it leaves behind seem to last a bit longer than Meguiar's pure polishes do (still seldom survive a wash though).



But *in this situation* I wouldn't underestimate the power of those mild abrasives. Once bitten...actually, I wish I had learned the *first* time :o



Stealth said:
My car is about to be repainted, my painter says it ok to wax it with p21s after a few days...so I'm a little concerned because I have to drive it a long distance back home from the shop and want to keep it as protected as possible.
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I dunno just how much "protection" (scare-quotes sorta intentional :think: ) the P21S is gonna provide anyhow. It's not like a coat of P21S is the same as layers of Collinite or some hardy sealant.



FWIW, *and I realize that I'm on one side of this fence and other people have good rationales for being on the other*, I've had a lot of vehicles painted at Stoddard Imports, and they're over an hour away from my home. I just drive the unprotected new paint home, and wash/glaze it if necessary. Even my good painter is a ways away, and I don't worry about it.
 
Not a pro here but my son works at a body shop and i was asking him a few weeks ago about this. he uses dupont paint so i can't say for other type paint or clear that are used but he was saying to waite at least 30 days.A glaze seems to be ok just make sure it's body shop safe.Maybe dropping a note to dupont you could get a better answer.well snooping around dupont i was able to send them a email on this matter when and if i get a answer ill post it up. Last thing i was able to find was a 30 to 90 day waite before wax is to be put on, this was not from dupont but just from searching on the net at a few different places that popped up.So for now it would seem that the 30 to 90 day is the way to go before you wax fresh paint.
 
I had some paint work done last fall. The car wasn't driven over the winter, and I'm just about to begin polishing it. As the temps were very low, I don't think that the paint had a chance to fully off-gas and my painter agrees. As such, I'm going to wait until mid-summer to lay down my sealant of choice. In the mean time, I'll be working with mild polished like M80, M205, OFP, and FPII, as well as bodyshop-safe glazes. I'm probably being more cautious than necessary, but since I don't plan on selling the car, I think the time spent waiting is well worth it. Does anyone see any problems with my plan?
 
Ok here's the scoop straight from Dupont paint tech i spoke with this morning on the phone. 120 days to cure. I then asked him is that for just dupont paint or most paints in general and he said most paints in general. so here's the answer to can i wax or seal and how long to waite. One last thing he said you can put a glaze on but do not seal or wax and use anything with silicone. I hope this helps everybody out.
 
mystic04- Thanks for that info. People have differing opinions about why the paint manufacturers say what they do, but I for one am glad to know that Dupont's current position is still to wait ~120 days.



FJF said:
... I'm probably being more cautious than necessary, but since I don't plan on selling the car, I think the time spent waiting is well worth it. Does anyone see any problems with my plan?
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Just remember to try the least-aggressive route first in case it *is* still a little soft. Your plan sounds like what I do. FWIW, I *do* think that even with the cooler/cold temps your paint will be cured/hard before mid-summer, but I waited almost that long on my S8 after its deer-incident repairs (incident was Thanksgiving weekend, repairs were right after that).
 
Most welcome Accumulator gald i was able to help with this, Being you have helped me in more way than you know from reading some of your post. just my little way to add some information and help out with a correct answer no guessing now.
 
Accumulator said:
Just remember to try the least-aggressive route first in case it *is* still a little soft. Your plan sounds like what I do.
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I appreciate your taking the time to comment, as well as the encouragement. Thank you. I started polishing the new paint over the weekend with a Flex/ grey CCS pad(s)/ M205 and it went well. After two passes, the paint looks gorgeous, but of course I want more. Would you suggest going to a blue (CCS) pad for jeweling, or perhaps using softer red or gold pads with OFP and FPII?



FWIW, I *do* think that even with the cooler/cold temps your paint will be cured/hard before mid-summer, but I waited almost that long on my S8 after its deer-incident repairs (incident was Thanksgiving weekend, repairs were right after that).
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The car was painted in the beginning of October. Given the above, am I correct in assuming that the paint will be fully cured by June? During the few very warm days we've had, I couldn't smell the paint at all.
 
FJF said:
... I started polishing the new paint over the weekend with a Flex/ grey CCS pad(s)/ M205 and it went well. After two passes, the paint looks gorgeous, but of course I want more. Would you suggest going to a blue (CCS) pad for jeweling, or perhaps using softer red or gold pads with OFP and FPII?
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I find it hard to recommend the best jeweling/burnishing approach for somebody else as IMO there are a lot of variables and this is some *very* subtle suff we're talking about.



Generally, pick a product that's *almost* functionally nonabrasive but still has a *little* cut on the paint in question. FPII is almost always a great choice (even if I don't use it myself- guys like SuperBee364 really like it for this and they burnish softer paints than I do).



Pick a pad that's zero-cut and that works well with the product in question. I don't see any *functional* point in using anything softer than already-zero-cut but some pads simply work better in certain applications than others for one reason or another (firmness/softness can be a personal preference; I like 'em a little firm and porosity seems to be a product-dependent kind of thing..). Sorry if that sounds really vague but it's kinda a "you just never know until you do it" situation IME.



I wouldn't bother with the final burnishing until the paint is fully cured (see below).

The car was painted in the beginning of October. Given the above, am I correct in assuming that the paint will be fully cured by June? During the few very warm days we've had, I couldn't smell the paint at all.
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I wouldn't be surprised if it's fully cured already, but I'm quite certain it'll be there by June. Gee...June isn't all that far away :eek:
 
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