How much SHOULD a wash mat cost?

[coscooper]

This is funny... I guess I could make my own.



I work for a PVC, TPO, and EPDM roofing membrane manufacturer. 10x20 would be 2 squares of product. We sell it to the customer for way less than $100. I have to confirm the price because I work with specifications and details. I know we have 45 and 60 mil TPO and PVC, and up to 90 mil EPDM. They should not cost more than $30 or so per square. Then all I need is to get a heat welder and some products (maybe fesco or iso insulation) to make the sides. But then... we dont really have water disposal laws here.

Kapinn - there's you a business idea. Using EPDM or one of the plastics should work perfectly for different applications. My dad brought me a chunk of EPDM from Texas last year and we made a "rough" set of corners with side props using round hard foam insulation you can find at HDepot or Lowes, we used it as a "catch" in my shop. Then we simply dumped it outside. It worked "okay", but needed refinement. EPDM is "heavy" and not for mobile use, one of the lighter plastics should work well for mobile. I was planning on making one using EPDM and with fittings and a way to get the water out through a small pump or gravity feed. I bet with some ingenuity someone could come up with a better, cheaper model for both mobile and for stationary shop work.

 

[kapinnn]

We have something called invinsa board that might do the trick. It's Poly-iso-cyanurate but without the blowing agent, so it's not full of micro bubbles. It's pretty light, resistant, and I could cut parts of it, place on sides, fold the membrane over it, and weld. Now... The hose is a trick indeed.



Well, I'm just saying I "could" make one. But i wont, lol. Unless there is an autopian in CO willing to help me. I can probably get all the materials for free.

 

[kapinnn]

Kapinn - there's you a business idea. Using EPDM or one of the plastics should work perfectly for different applications. My dad brought me a chunk of EPDM from Texas last year and we made a "rough" set of corners with side props using round hard foam insulation you can find at HDepot or Lowes, we used it as a "catch" in my shop. Then we simply dumped it outside. It worked "okay", but needed refinement. EPDM is "heavy" and not for mobile use, one of the lighter plastics should work well for mobile. I was planning on making one using EPDM and with fittings and a way to get the water out through a small pump or gravity feed. I bet with some ingenuity someone could come up with a better, cheaper model for both mobile and for stationary shop work.

Yeah, I could look into using a 60 mil TPO or PVC. I'm not sure how puncture resistance they would be in the long run, though. Let me check what we have in the tech center for products and see what would be our best candidates. I still dunno how I'd put the drain/hose connector in there. cut a hole and just caulk it?

 

[Rayc777]

Depending on the thickness I think they are similar in weight to wash mats. A 10 x 20 45mil is 60lbs, 15x20 is 90lbs. I looked them up on pondliner.com Honestly I'm shocked mats are so expensive. The material is readily available and the design is incredibly basic.

I think they passed those lawss so the little guy can't make money. When they start enforcing the laws concerning waste water reclaiming a hugh percentage of weekend detailers will leave the business.



Derrick

 

[Rayc777]

why not wash with ONR?

I install TOUGHGUARD and it requires that the catatonic soap solution be complete

rinsed form the paint with clean water. Then I install the never wax coating on the car.

ONR will impede the process.



Derrick

 

[Rayc777]

ONR is washing the car correctly.

ONR is washing a car. I need to totally rinse a car with clean water to complete the installation of my system.



Derrick

 

[Rayc777]

This is funny... I guess I could make my own.



I work for a PVC, TPO, and EPDM roofing membrane manufacturer. 10x20 would be 2 squares of product. We sell it to the customer for way less than $100. I have to confirm the price because I work with specifications and details. I know we have 45 and 60 mil TPO and PVC, and up to 90 mil EPDM. They should not cost more than $30 or so per square. Then all I need is to get a heat welder and some products (maybe fesco or iso insulation) to make the sides. But then... we dont really have water disposal laws here.

That might be your calling. Most detailers will pay $200- $400 instead of $900 for a wash mat. I told someone earlier that the cost for materials and labor is dirt cheap compared to what detailing supplies outlet are selling them for. If you ask me I believe they are shooting the hand that feed them. If they sell more wash mats more detailer can make money and the detailing shop will more products. JMO



Derrick

 

[Rayc777]

I think EPA regulations require it for any commercial usage in the US. However enforcement seems to be done at a local level. I seem to recall it getting worse then just having to reclaim your water in some localities. The recovery water can be viewed as hazardous waste and then you have to get approved to transport it. I hope where I live it doesn't get enforced.

If the chemical you use are V.O.C. compliant I don't think you will have a problem with transporting the waste.



Derrick

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I still dunno how I'd put the drain/hose connector in there. cut a hole and just caulk it?

That would pull right out. It's gotta be "grommetized" or something. Perhaps a bulkhead type connector that would sandwich a reinforced section of the membrane.

 

[Scottwax]

ONR is washing a car. I need to totally rinse a car with clean water to complete the installation of my system.



Derrick

I can wash 128 or so cars with a $35 gallon of ONR and be in full compliance with waste water guidelines. I don't see any reason for additional 'systems', at least for me. Whatever works for you or makes you comfortable is what you should do though.

 

[Rayc777]

I can wash 128 or so cars with a $35 gallon of ONR and be in full compliance with waste water guidelines. I don't see any reason for additional 'systems', at least for me. Whatever works for you or makes you comfortable is what you should do though.

ScottWax,

I am agreeing with you that using ONR IS washing a car, BUT to install TOUGHGUARD I have to wash my ionizing soap solution off with plain water. If I used ONR to wash the ionizing soap off it would inhibit the bonding process of the protectant with the ionized clear coat. I have to follow the installation process or the warranty would not be honored by TOUGHGUARD due me using an unapproved(no rinse wash) procedure. I can't and won't take that that chance.



Derrick

 

[PhaRO]

If the chemical you use are V.O.C. compliant I don't think you will have a problem with transporting the waste.



Derrick

As I recall the problem isn't the chemicals you use but the crap you clean off the vehicle with the chemicals.

 

[Ern]

I just wish they made a plain mat similar to this that I could put in my garage to keep the water near the car and not under my workbench and everything else.

 

[Scottwax]

Derrick-I don't use Toughguard...I don't even know what it is. I guess in your situation you don't have much choice in the process, eh?

 

[Rayc777]

Derrick-I don't use Toughguard...I don't even know what it is. I guess in your situation you don't have much choice in the process, eh?

ScottWax,

Have you used five star shine? If you have, then you have basically used TOUGHGUARD's old technology which was designed primarily for the aviation industry and military. I install the new formula which is also designed to be used on cars. I have three ways to apply the product that would be within the guidelines, by hand, by random orbital, and by low speed buffer(1800 rpms or less). If I go out of the approved procedures and use a no rinse wash solution, my rear end could get burned and I don't have enough rear end to burn. :tribe:



So I won't chance it.



Derrick

 

[imported_Tex Star Detail]

I think EPA regulations require it for any commercial usage in the US. However enforcement seems to be done at a local level. I seem to recall it getting worse then just having to reclaim your water in some localities. The recovery water can be viewed as hazardous waste and then you have to get approved to transport it. I hope where I live it doesn't get enforced.

I had called EPA several times over the past 2 years. I was told that I had to check local about water restrictions/re-claim. They gave me no info on the matter the first few times.

They also said that it is not mandatory. I gave them the type of business and a rough estimate of gallons used at each site. Chemicals used as well.



SO I called the state (Texas), county, and town(s). I was told it was recommended, but not enforced. There were no restrictions or reclaiming laws present at this time. I was told they were trying to pass a bill or some type of program called "Phase II" which would require it, but said it has been over several years since and it has not taken effect...

I have kept all names and numbers on whom I have talked to for a "Just in case".

So.......I wash with no reclaim until a law is passed saying so.

 

[Rayc777]

I had called EPA several times over the past 2 years. I was told that I had to check local about water restrictions/re-claim. They gave me no info on the matter the first few times.

They also said that it is not mandatory. I gave them the type of business and a rough estimate of gallons used at each site. Chemicals used as well.



SO I called the state (Texas), county, and town(s). I was told it was recommended, but not enforced. There were no restrictions or reclaiming laws present at this time. I was told they were trying to pass a bill or some type of program called "Phase II" which would require it, but said it has been over several years since and it has not taken effect...

I have kept all names and numbers on whom I have talked to for a "Just in case".

So.......I wash with no reclaim until a law is passed saying so.

Now if this is true, I'm angry. They told me, I had to reclaim my waste water and dump it at an approved site. They sent me a booklet explaining the laws and how to dispose the waste. Texas is a state ran by the corrupt and full liars.



Derrick

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Now if this is true, I'm angry. They told me, I had to reclaim my waste water and dump it at an approved site. They sent me a booklet explaining the laws and how to dispose the waste. Texas is a state ran by the corrupt and full liars.

I think we've been over this before in other threads. I believe it is a violation of federal law to discharge anything (including tap water, which has chlorine in it) into storm drains (drains that ultimately discharge into rivers or other bodies of water before being treated).



The local enforcement (and perhaps acute knowledge of actual laws) varies widely. The reason for the frequent phrase "consult your local sewer authority" applies to sanitary sewers, which is different. While the sewage treatment plant must conform to the same federal laws when they discharge into a body of water (which they do, after treatment), not all plants treat for all wastes. So a certain sewer authority may allow you to discharge certain wastes into your sanitary sewer, because they will remove it at their treatment plant, while you can't discharge that in another locale because it will pass thru the treatment plant (or foul up their process) and cause them to violate the storm water laws.



I know it's frustrating to get different answers, but I think the answer really is that it's illegal, but the enforcement is up to state and local authorities, whose budgets/priorities differ.

 

[White95Max]

Laws will vary across states and locales regarding enforcement of draining/dumping into storm sewers. Some municipalities (like Milwaukee, WI for example) have a combined storm/sanitary sewer system, so anything that goes down the storm sewers will end up receiving the same treatment process at the wastewater treatment plant. This causes problems during heavy rainstorms though, when Milwaukee occasionally has to release huge volumes of raw sewage into Lake Michigan to avoid backing up the sewer system in the city.

It is selfish to complain about having to comply with laws that restrict dumping of waste into storm sewers. Realize that the body of water that those storm sewers drain into is part of a much larger system--groundwater. Eventually, you're going to see that water again, and some of the pollutants that you added to the groundwater system have extremely long decomposition times. Think they'll be removed when the water is pumped out for municipal distribution? Doubtful. Few municipalities go beyond chlorination and flouridation when pumping "fresh" water to send to the citizens.

Simply put, minimize the dumping of anything into the storm sewer that you wouldn't want to drink.

 

[imported_Tex Star Detail]

Now if this is true, I'm angry. They told me, I had to reclaim my waste water and dump it at an approved site. They sent me a booklet explaining the laws and how to dispose the waste. Texas is a state ran by the corrupt and full liars.



Derrick

It has taken me almost 2 years of running around to get any answers...

I swear it takes an act of congress to get a reply for anything...





Here in TX, or at least my town and the surrounding areas, we do not have drains of any sort. Maybe on the larger main road, but not in the residential areas....

99% of the time, the water will flow down the side of the street and evaporate....

LOL, no joke.