How much dawn do you use?

Excellent post foxtrapper. :xyxthumbs

I have been trying to explain this for years but the "real" science explaination doesn't quite penetrate the myth.

Thanks for the real world product comparison. :bow :bow :bow
 
blkZ28Conv said:
Excellent post foxtrapper. :xyxthumbs

I have been trying to explain this for years but the "real" science explaination doesn't quite penetrate the myth.

Thanks for the real world product comparison. :bow :bow :bow
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Okay okay, apparently Dawn is safe. But how many detailers are suddenly going to switch to the product? I would guess, not too many...



Charles
 
foxtrapper said:
Dawn MSDS #1

Dawn MSDS #2

Water, surfacant, alcohol. Well that wasn't very exciting.



Lets compare that to some automotive specific cleaners. Surely there's going to be a huge difference.



Prizm car wash MSDS

3M car wash MSDS

Pearl car wash MSDS



Water, surfacant, alcohol. OH MY GOD!!! They've even got the same PH! The HORROR!!!



Yes folks, a little research and one finds that:

1) Dawn isn't an evil product with anti-paint properties

2) Car specific cleaners aren't any different than Dawn

3) Grease cutting cleaners are really all the same.
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AMEN! At last someone posts something new that moves the Dawn debate forward beyond the same old points made in previous threads here in Autopia . All credit to you foxtrapper! :bow



Dawn really is a fairly basic detergent, no enzymes, optical brighteners, conditioners etc. If someone can post the ingredient(s) included in Dawn which are responsible for degrading rubber and plastic trim and which are not included in the average car wash, now might be the time to speak up! I'm one person who will be very interested to hear from you. If not I'm just going to put the "I won't use Dawn" posts down to personal preference, just like some prefer using Z7, NXT or Perls etc.



To be honest, I wonder how many other dedicated car wash detergents are used by around 40% of Autopians, the number who claimed to use Dawn in a recent Autopian poll. That is a significant number of people using Dawn, for whom Dawn seems to work and who do not report problems involving damaged trim.



Please do not misunderstand, I do not want to fuel this debate, I just do not think this is an important or meaningful issue, worthy of repeated discussion! If someone could post something to convince me that Dawn cannot remove oils, natural waxes etc. or that it really does harm trim, I might change my mind.



Until then.. happy detailing! :D
 
It always amazes me how an urban legend can develop, and then be hung on so strongly by so many people when the facts aren't even investigated. I think alot of people could learn alot from this thread of Dawn being so horrible to someones vehicle. Find out the facts about something before your willing to defend something so strongly. Thanks Foxtrapper for showing the other side of the myth.
 
Can Dawn remove every LSP as well as a paint specific product like Prepsol? If so, it comes down to procedural preferences, wash the entire car (Dawn) or work on a panel at a time: no need to rinse and dry with a Prepsol-type product, best suited for working on a panel at a time, just apply, let dwell for a bit, wipe off.
 
Bill D said:
Can Dawn remove every LSP as well as a paint specific product like Prepsol? If so, it comes down to procedural preferences, wash the entire car (Dawn) or work on a panel at a time: no need to rinse and dry with a Prepsol-type product, best suited for working on a panel at a time, just apply, let dwell for a bit, wipe off.
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IMHO Dawn is not a substitute for a product like Prepsol. In my experience although it may lead to the early failure of a sealant like Z2 Pro or UPP, one wash with Dawn will not remove these sealants, in the same way that Dawn removes most waxes, and oils. This is just my impression.



I tend to use mainly sealants, or sealants topped with a wax and dawn works well for the purpose I need. I couldn't recommend using it in place of Prepsol, if the user is looking to remove all LSP's. It is too gentle for this purpose.



Just my 2 cents..
 
My impressions exactly and I prefer to work a panel at a time so it is the product that fits me best.
 
Bill D said:
My impressions exactly and I prefer to work a panel at a time so it is the product that fits me best.
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You hit the nail on the head Bill, Autopia is not about finding the BEST way to detail a vehicle or the BEST product, it's often about learning what processes and products work for others, trying them out for yourself and then deciding what process and products SUIT YOU best and gives YOU the results you want.



Autopia may be a very useful guide and tool, but ultimately everyone has to make their own mind up on these matters based on their own experience of what is working for them!
 
Yeah, foxtrapper, that was a great step forward :xyxthumbs



Oh, and as for "what Dawn removes", I can say that for me, Dawn has *never* stripped KSG, Collinite 476S, or even fresh coats of #16. And I've tried some pretty strong Dawn solutions on these products too. Never had any noticeable effect on them at all.



nailzer said:
Are you saying to work out the swirls with #80 through AIO is better then a clean, cleaner/wax free surface after a Dawn wash?
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I should think it's not a case of "better" but rather "different". Anything that removes paint (the mechanics behind "swirl removal") will also remove anything on top of the paint, though it might gum up the pad a little bit. I like to have a "LSP free" surface before some polishing, but it's not always worth an extra step.



But if you intend to clay away contamination that's actually *stuck in the paint* it can pay to do such things before you polish lest the polishing compromise the effectiveness of the clay by smoothing the contaminants, making them harder for the clay to "grab".
 
Prepsol and other dedicated products: Excellent for total removal of LSP/oils/silicones and for prep for Zaino type products if on hand.



Vehicle dedicated washes. Excellent for routine cleaning of exteriors without total removal of LSP's. Wash and Go situations.



Dawn- recommended as a easily obtainable,and inexpensive product for excellent pre-cleaning of painted surfaces for Zaino's maximum potential adhersion and visual results. Not recommended by any source I know for routine washing that is not followed by re-application of a LSP.



I Prepsol more than I Dawn wash (Spring and Fall) because as Bill mention, spot repairs. :xyxthumbs
 
Bill D said:
Can Dawn remove every LSP as well as a paint specific product like Prepsol?
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Prep-Sol is a solvent , made by DuPont. Dawn is just a detergent. Yours is an apples and oranges question.



Though of the two, Prep-Sol is the one that is specifically and intentionally capable of damaging and stripping paint. It is a solvent, and that's what solvents do.



Prep-Sol MSDS



I'd use Dawn without fear, but I'd be very cautious about using Prep-Sol on a painted surface.
 
I wasn't trying to interchange the two products. Certainly two products of very different natures can give similar results-- all caveats of doing so aside. The question in it of itself isn't apples to oranges if they can do the same task.



I'd be cautious of both products and would ask about a specific sutuation when in doubt before proceding.
 
Mark Waldron said:
It always amazes me how an urban legend can develop, and then be hung on so strongly by so many people when the facts aren't even investigated. I think alot of people could learn alot from this thread of Dawn being so horrible to someones vehicle. Find out the facts about something before your willing to defend something so strongly. Thanks Foxtrapper for showing the other side of the myth.
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I have a different perspective on this. I have never been convinced that Dawn DEFINITELY does harm. However, what does using DAWN buy you? And, if it doesn't buy anything, than why take any chances with it?
 
The Uncle said:
I have a different perspective on this. I have never been convinced that Dawn DEFINITELY does harm. However, what does using DAWN buy you? And, if it doesn't buy anything, than why take any chances with it?
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This whole discussion stems from the Zaino prep instructions. What the usage of Dawn "gives you" is reassurance by the formulator of Zaino that your surface will is properly prepped (degreased) for his polishes (sealants) maximum performance (appearance and durability). No more and no less.

Other extrapolations or extensions beyond that is just personal experiences and results received.:cool:
 
Accumulator said:
Oh, and as for "what Dawn removes", I can say that for me, Dawn has *never* stripped KSG, Collinite 476S, or even fresh coats of #16. And I've tried some pretty strong Dawn solutions on these products too. Never had any noticeable effect on them at all.
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I thought I was the only one that had problems removing collinite 476S with dish soap..... ;) Even from my fingers.



In a previous post I stated that if dishsoap if for kitchen usage, leave it in the kitchen.... Well, Accumulator just posted the reason: It may remove oils and dirt, but it WON'T remove a strong wax or sealant. Yes, collinite is wax, so it should be removed by dishsoap, but if you have attempted to do so you already know that the 476S almost laughs at the dawn wash..... If hypeno, I mean zaino ask for the dishsoap wash, go ahead and do it. Other products don't ask for it, so use a dedicated paint cleanser. (flamesuit on :D) If the main reason is removal of previous products, these are good examples of exceptions.





Alex
 
Joe public (majority of vehicle owners (non-Autopia type)): Collinite 476S :nixweiss



I guess Zaino could write instructions for the detailing intelligent users about properly removing esoteric products that may not be amendable to a simple Dawn wash. But then again that may add to the already complex application instruction.:rolleyes:
 
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