How much carnauba in a product?

J

jlineman

New member
I am trying to compare ,on paper, Pinnacle Souveran spray wax and Optimum spray wax. I have noticed that wax products all will say something like "Highest concentration of carnauba wax available" OR "A special blend of such and such" The people that write this stuff should be making big money?
First off does anyone know where to research the percentages and what kind of carnauba and sealants in a wax. I think I saw on this forum where VERY expensive wax was discussed and the person gave percentages of what was in the product. Secondly...does anyone know how Souveran spray wax compares with Optimum spray wax as far as shine and durability?
 
jlineman said:
I am trying to compare ,on paper, Pinnacle Souveran spray wax and Optimum spray wax. I have noticed that wax products all will say something like "Highest concentration of carnauba wax available" OR "A special blend of such and such" The people that write this stuff should be making big money?
First off does anyone know where to research the percentages and what kind of carnauba and sealants in a wax. I think I saw on this forum where VERY expensive wax was discussed and the person gave percentages of what was in the product. Secondly...does anyone know how Souveran spray wax compares with Optimum spray wax as far as shine and durability?
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Very good questions. :bigups


I think I saw on this forum where VERY expensive wax was discussed and the person gave percentages of what was in the product.
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The problem with this approach is there is no standard forum of measuring. There are actually different ways to arrive at the numbers quoted by some manufacturers, for example:

Measuring the dry volume of the carnauba then mixing it will liquid solvent. You could fill a 100 gallon garage can 90% full with feathers (carnauba flake) then fill it with 90 gallons of water (solvent), since the water will fill the voids around the feathers.

At the end of the day you could say that the garbage can was 90% feathers by volume (since you measuring the dry volume of the feathers before adding water) or you could say that it is 50% carnauba (based on the fact that 90% of it was full (90 gallons) of feathers before cramming it full with 90 gallons of water. In reality, it is 90% water, 10% feathers, but this measurement doesn't sound as impressive.

The other example would be to replace feathers with bricks. This is because carnauba often weighs more than the solvent used to dissolve it. Thus we could up with large sounding numbers by weight.

Keep in mind that carnauba, as an ingredient in a wax, is extremely hard. It must be mixed with oils and solvents to make it soft enough for application. Most chemists I have spoken to, including high end wax manufacturers, believe that 25-30%, by wet volume, is the most you could possibly get into jar of wax, and at that point, that wax would be very very difficult to use. Numbers, even expensive waxes, quoted higher are using some form of measurement that may confuse the marketplace.


First off does anyone know where to research the percentages and what kind of carnauba and sealants in a wax.
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No. As mentioned above, their is no standard for measuring carnauba content in a wax, so you would only be researching marketing numbers and the manufacturers interpretation of how carnauba should be measured.

I have noticed that wax products all will say something like "Highest concentration of carnauba wax available" OR "A special blend of such and such" The people that write this stuff should be making big money?
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In many ways this is a more accurate statement then quoting a percentage. Due to modern VOC regulations, you can only blend so much carnauba into a wax (less into a spray). Claiming to have the most you can is more accurate then claiming to have unobtainable numbers in my opinion. Ultimately, carnauba is just one of many ingredients that give a car wax its performance and characteristics.

Secondly...does anyone know how Souveran spray wax compares with Optimum spray wax as far as shine and durability?
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In my experience, Optimum Car Wax is longer lasting while Souvern Spray Wax creates a much deeper, Souveran like shine. While both products may have a huge amount of carnauba (the most available in a spray formula perhaps) it is the function of the solvents, oils, other waxes, and polymers that give the wax their own unique performance.

Both Pinnacle and Optimum do not advertise the amount carnauba in their products, and thus are not subject to inventing forms of measurements that can confuse the marketplace. Both products provide exceptional performance and, IME, it is always best to judge a product on how it performs.
 
The solvents are a key indicator. Producing the waxes by using solvents to melt the feathers of carnauba while very cost effective doesn't always produce the best waxes. The other method is cooking or heating the carnauba. While this method is slower and more painstaking it does produce a wax with higher percentages of carnauba. Because the wax is cooked the oils are added in higher concentration as well. Not many companies left producing waxes like this anymore so they are hard to find. They can also be more difficult to work and produce very little haze. Why you ask, when's the last time you seen a palm tree with white haze on it? Or is it the additives?
 
Jeffro831 said:
The solvents are a key indicator. Producing the waxes by using solvents to melt the feathers of carnauba while very cost effective doesn't always produce the best waxes. The other method is cooking or heating the carnauba. While this method is slower and more painstaking it does produce a wax with higher percentages of carnauba. Because the wax is cooked the oils are added in higher concentration as well. Not many companies left producing waxes like this anymore so they are hard to find. They can also be more difficult to work and produce very little haze. Why you ask, when's the last time you seen a palm tree with white haze on it? Or is it the additives?
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This thread is over 2 years old.

If you want th e people to see the thread, you may want to pm them :lol2:
 
My Inner Cynic can`t help but think that "Percentage of Carnauba" is a whole lotta hot air amounting to basically nothing. I pay zero attention to vaguely defined (let alone unverifiable) claims in general, and *no* attention to this one at all; I couldn`t care less as long as the wax does what I want it to do, and I`ve *never* observed a meaningful correlation between supposed Carnauba Content and performance.

BUT..I`ll be the first to admit that if I were working on different paints, and using (a vast assortment of) different waxes, I might see the whole thing completely different!

BUT#2...If somebody`s vehicle doesn`t look right, I doubt that the Carnauba Content of their wax is the cause.
 
WOW, this thread is now over 6 years old!

I thought I had read somewhere there was a wax that contained 70% carnauba but then again if Todd says 25-30% I may have read some hype then. But then my memory isn`t what it used to be either. I have a can of Surf City Garage Carnauba wax and it is turning from blue to white in the center. But man does it smell like heaven when I opened the can. I think I only used it once or twice and it sure is nice to work with but that might be the solvents part of it.
 
I used to think that it mattered how much carnauba was in a wax, but then I decided it was not the most important thing about a wax. With the addition of polymers and other synthetic ingredients in the wax longetivity due to carnauba content is not as important. I also figured out the higher the carnauba content the harder the wax is to spread and remove, both are not things you look for in a wax.

After emailing Son1c a few times and discussing the art of wax making I think the most important ingredient in wax making is the actual wax maker. Making a great wax is an art and a science.
 
Off topic here, i have managed to get a full SDS on one of the local (and cheap) car wash and wax products here in Australia. The interesting fact is the manufacturer is very open and transparent about the content. So the wax % of volume is only 0.1%. This means in their 1L product we have exactly 1ml of wax. Makes you understand why not many brands disclose this. Even if megs has 10 times more wax (probably more like 3x) its still only 10 ml of wax per 1L, in the top mainstream wash and wax products.
Cheers

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Carnauba is overrated. It`s yellow and slightly darkens the paint. If that`s your thing, great. Synthetic polymers is where it`s at. Leave the carnauba in the last century.
 
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