How does a hack do it?

T

thedetailer

New member
While polishing...how are swirls put into the paint? Not enough product? Not working the area long enough? Working it too long?



I never seem to have a problem. I just want to know what makes a hack...a hack
 
Say....... Your a detailer for a dealership. You get put on a car. It needs four hours of work and the manager gives you 1/2 an hour and he has supplied you with the cheapest and worn out products you have ever seen.



Give that a try.
 
also....a lot of hacks like to use a real aggressive pad/polish combo......like diamond cut or 105 and wool.....and then cover its swirls and holograms up with a glaze or filler. it looks good at first....then a week later it looks terrible because the filler has left the surface.
 
Basically....a hack detailer is one that doesn't follow through the job to completion. Say...the car needs a two step and the detailer chooses the 105 and wool...but doesn't follow that up with...lets say...205 and a white LC?
 
thedetailer said:
Basically....a hack detailer is one that doesn't follow through the job to completion. Say...the car needs a two step and the detailer chooses the 105 and wool...but doesn't follow that up with...lets say...205 and a white LC?
Click to expand...



Yea. Usually they just fill it in with a glaze and it looks great for 2 weeks, then, it's worse than it was before. Hack detailers generally have no idea what they are doing.
 
i think hack detailers do know what they are doing to some extent.....they could make a car look flawless and correctly detail car if they WANTED to, but they chose to skip steps because they concentrate more on quantity than quality, and try to make a quick dollar.
 
I was thinking something about this a few days ago too. When we polish a car we know what we are trying to accomplish. When a hack "polishes" something, I wonder what they are trying to accomplish. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that everyone who sets out to do work on anything is expecting to get a better outcome than what they started with. So, why would someone take a fairly flawless car (new car, fresh from the factory) and hit it with 4 ply and 3M EC and consider it done? I could maybe see a rookie or whatever do one car, pull it into the sun and then go, ewwww, but why is this happening time after time though?!



A long, long time ago I used to get my car washed at a "detail" shop. I would always see someone with a buffer and wool hitting a car. At the time, I didn't give much thought to it other than, "maybe my car could use that." Looking back on it now, I just think... I wonder what that guy with he polisher was trying to do, or if he truly knew what he was doing by polishing.



Anyway, to the OP... Hacks don't like to finish down properly. I don't even think they know how to. Simple lack of education, imo. Using to aggressive of a combo will leave swirls, hazing, holo's, and trails.
 
i actually had a meguairs DEALER tell me that all i need for a flawless finsih is diamond cut M85, followed by MEguairs machine glaze M3. that right there was beyond belief for me, that someone selling this stuff would recommend such a thing.
 
^ I think it was Porta that said that a detailer around his part of the world would use M85 only. On some paint it *might* be possible going all the way down to a red/blue or gold pad on some paints like Audi. I have never tried it but it sounds like a time killer later on for me.
 
Hacks make it look good for the moment. Most are taught (by other hacks mind you) to wool it with compound. Wax it, and ship it. There was one dealership I worked for back in the early 90's that did try to make it a rule that black cars would get a once over from a foam pad after the compound to remove the swirls LOL...



But just go into a dealership set up. Dirty pads, towels on the floors, no idea what the products they use actually do, etc etc etc...
 
I don't think we as detailers should bash a detailer at a dealership. While yes some are not trained properly, Mostly you have to factor a lot of things in here. One as a dealership you need to turn cars fast to make money. The faster the turnaround the faster the dealership makes money. Now this is where it falls into service and cleanup. We will focus on the clean up here. Ill bet some guys do care. The problem here is that, there not getting paid for perfection. There getting paid for a shiny clean car. Thats the bottom line. Now Onto the hack stuff. How are swirls put into paint? Well the old saying is you need to put scratches in a car to get them out. This applies by when you level a finish your gonna get marring. Once the paint is leveled it will have wool markings in the paint. this is how you get wool marks that are like swirls. Think of it like this picture a mountain side. YOu need to come in with a bull dozer to level it. Now once its leveled you need to set the foundation. The foundation would be to refine it. This would be to remove the scratches that incured from the wool pad. then at this point the ground should be looking flat and ready to be beautified. Now to make it nice you would polish the paint. Once polished you would wax or seal it. Take this picture below. here you would think that someone hacked this car. When in all actuallity this was compounded really hard with wool. This is what a heavy compounded car should look like.







DSCF2792.jpg






Now in this picture look at this camera flash once the paint was refined all the wool marring is gone, Granted there is a few deeper fids that couldn;t be removed with out harming the clear coat. There are a few holograms from the foam in this picture. Now thats ok because its only been refined at this point and not polished.





DSCF2836.jpg




Take notice in this picture ths camera flash. No holograms or wheel marks, The depth and clarity is restored.



DSC_0288.jpg




This is working all the steps. Now people who hack stuff up don't work all the steps either by lack of exsperiance or pure lazyness. I hacked cars for years at places. NOt because I wanted to, but because its what I was paid to due. So you can call me hack if you want. lol same concept with wetsanding. Kinda weird how you sand paint to get out scratches? Again you have to put scratches in a car to remove them. Now you should understand how you get scratches from compounding. That is if you understand all my jibberish!
 
Barry you bring up a great point. Right now I'm helping out a few dealership with getting their guys up to snuff so speak. But I have to ask how much motivation can a guy have with the prices they pay. Here's a break down of what the workers get.



Re-wash = wash the car, quick vacuum, windows. = $5

Delivery = wash the car, vacuum, glass and wax = $10

Full detail = Supposed to include everything it takes to get the car in saleable condition = $35





How much motivation would anyone on here have to do everything 100% in the time frame they give (Usually 3 hours total or less for full details) and the pay these guys get. The Managers come back B*tching and moaning about how sloppy these guys are and how dirty the cars are still to which I reply... You paid for a $10 wash you got a $10 wash. Hence why I just can't stand dealing with the dealership mentality.
 
The Enforcer said:
i actually had a meguairs DEALER tell me that all i need for a flawless finsih is diamond cut M85, followed by MEguairs machine glaze M3. that right there was beyond belief for me, that someone selling this stuff would recommend such a thing.
Click to expand...



Glad I have a better Meguiars dealer than that. Probably helps that Mike Phillips has done a class there, plus the Meguiars portable classroom (converted semi trailer) has been there too.



What is really amazing now though, is what you can get with #105 and #205!
 
Well to me there is three types of hacks.



1. The Pay Day hack. Dosen't give a crap about what he does. Knows what he should do. But just wants to make a quick buck.Any chemical will do as long as it shines for customer pickup and eval. Lazyness usually can fall into this category too.



These guys usually get clients who wanna save a buck, and are uneducated on how a car should look/feel. When two weeks go buy and their car looks like crap. It pushes them away from real professional detailing because they feel they paid for a useless service.



2. The uneducated hack - These guys are usually taught improperly. Do mean well and usually do want to do a good job. But due to their poor education they make mistakes and don't know whats wrong.



3. The I'm paid to be a hack - Dealership/Car lot wash guys. I get paid 8 dollars an hour to wash a car. They give me crap to use. They get crap results. As long as its clean. Thats all that matters. Its not their fault. I've worked at a dealership too. And Its all about clean that car. I want this many cars out today. And so on such. Quantitiy vs. quantity. As long as its kinda shiny when the customer picks it up



I'm sorry to say that most hacks usually fall under category 1. Categories 2 & 3 are people who usually end up deciding that professional detailng is not for them and move on. Or Decide to go and get more educated and start getting much better results. For category 3 They usually have to leave the quantity world first though
 
Scottwax said:
Glad I have a better Meguiars dealer than that. Probably helps that Mike Phillips has done a class there, plus the Meguiars portable classroom (converted semi trailer) has been there too.



What is really amazing now though, is what you can get with #105 and #205!
Click to expand...



this dealer had enver even HEARD of 105 and 205.....and this was only a month ago!
 
Yea I've talked to a lot of meg's "Dealer's" and I'd say only about a 1/3 of them have ever heard about 105 or 205. Apprently Meg's dosen't bother teaching all their dealers about their new products
 
I've honestly never seen a hack at work until a couple months ago. I've seen the videos online of people butchering cars and having done a few panels badly (holograms, swirls from aggressive polishes, etc.) myself when first starting out I always knew exactly what happens and why, but seeing it in person is just completely eye-opening. Since the first time a couple months ago, I've seen it almost daily when driving by detail shops. Car is sitting outside of the shop, yes outside, the guy is holding a rotary, with what seems to be an 8"-10" wool pad, yes wool pad, no clue if there's any polish on the pad or not, and he's going at it at about 10" per second, fairly high speed from the sounds I've heard, and only covering every square inch once (no breaking down of polish, etc.).



That's when it all really made sense and I could now clearly explain to those friends who say "Why the F do you charge $3-400 for a polishing when I can do it for less than half that?!"... we walk over to the shop and that's that.



As for why people do it that way (why hacks are hacks) that's another discussion and I agree with what was said previously... generally either people are great at marketing a product that they don't nearly deliver and are out to make a bunch of money probably at like $100+/hr and others are just uneducated. Sometimes I feel bad for the cars, but since I can't really change the fact that there will always be 90% hacks and 10% actual detailers (exaggerating here, it's more like 95-98% hacks) I simply say "Nice, another client for me in a few weeks".
 
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