How do you know when to stop?

H

HLxDrummer

New member
Well I've only machine polished two cars so far (and half a boat) and have some questions.



Right now I only have Meguiar's UC and SwirlX (will get Menz or 105/205 next time around). With this combination and CCS orange/white pads I'm seeing some correction, but not a ton.



I could spend more time/pressure on a panel, but I'm afraid of going through the paint. Mainly what I have achieved is removing oxidation and adding some shine, but I haven't really removed any swirls.



Is there anyway to judge how much I can buff? I've been looking into PTG's, but they're just too expensive for me since I'm just doing this for fun/on the side and considering I'm in college.



However, I would really like to get some swirls out of my paint as well as do a better job on other's cars.



Thanks for any input!
 
HLxDrummer- Absent the ETG, there's not really any way to know for certain, though extensive experience will help a lot (there are guys here who never use an ETG and never have a problem).



[Insert advice to err on the side of caution here...]



Generally, given the stuff you're using, as long as you're working on factory paint, that hasn't been seriously compounded before, I doubt you need to worry. I've taken out pretty severe marring quite a few times without having any trouble.



If the marring isn't really nasty, and you haven't corrected it, the odds are that you can take off more. The oxidation you cut off is usually *VERY* thin, and easy to abrade compared to "healthy" paint.



With M105/4" orange (pretty aggressive), I'll sometimes to well over a half-dozen "section passes" before I get a scratch out. No problem, but I wouldn't want to do that too many times.



But note that some vehicles have notoriously thin paint and you do need to be careful on those; I could cut through (let alone just overthin) the clear on my Mazda MPV in no time at all if I got carried away.
 
Very reassuring advice, thanks!



I figured I couldn't be taking off too much considering that I'm not getting any where near the level of correction of some of you guys.



That's a great way to look at it (if the defect isn't that bad, and it isn't gone yet...).



The harshest pad I have is a 5.5" CCS orange, also.





Now my next question, what is different/bad about cars that have been repainted? Just inconsistent? Or is there usually less clear or something? My friend wants his car detailed, but it's been repainted a TON of times.



Again, thank you!
 
Now my next question, what is different/bad about cars that have been repainted? Just inconsistent? Or is there usually less clear or something?
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Yes. Lots of factors, really...



Try M105 with a short nap wool pad at low speed and very little pressure.
 
Flashtime said:
Yes. Lots of factors, really...



Try M105 with a short nap wool pad at low speed and very little pressure.
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I'm definitely picking up 105/205 when I get more polish (not for a while).



What makes wool different than foam pads? I've always heard they leave their own swirls/trails. Need to go do some research! :dance
 
HLxDrummer said:
I'm definitely picking up 105/205 when I get more polish (not for a while).



What makes wool different than foam pads? I've always heard they leave their own swirls/trails. Need to go do some research! :dance
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I use wool pads for the initial cut then polish out with a foam pad.
 
A good way to find out when to "stop" is to compound/polish a sample section. The fender is a great place b/c that curved surface will be a great place to look for swirls in the sunlight. But do your compound treatment, then whipe away, and do your polish. If it still has swirls, you know you have to compound longer. Once you've learned on one panel, the rest should pretty much follow suit.



I've used Megs Swirl X (not sure of color X?) and followed with Megs UC on a metallic red ford taurus and made a drastic improvement!!!



taurus1.jpg




taurus2.jpg




taurus3.jpg
 
AeroCleanse said:
I use wool pads for the initial cut then polish out with a foam pad.
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Ok, makes sense.



tssdetailing said:
A good way to find out when to "stop" is to compound/polish a sample section. The fender is a great place b/c that curved surface will be a great place to look for swirls in the sunlight. But do your compound treatment, then whipe away, and do your polish. If it still has swirls, you know you have to compound longer. Once you've learned on one panel, the rest should pretty much follow suit.



I've used Megs Swirl X (not sure of color X?) and followed with Megs UC on a metallic red ford taurus and made a drastic improvement!!!



taurus1.jpg




taurus2.jpg




taurus3.jpg
Click to expand...



Actually, it is SwirlX I have. I got them mixed up :p



I thought SwirlX was a less aggressive polish compared to UC, though?



Either way, looks great. I guess if the damage isn't too bad, you can probably keep going until it looks perfect again, huh?
 
Flashtime said:
Try M105 with a short nap wool pad at low speed and very little pressure.
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I'm pretty sure that that he's using a PC/etc., and I'd be leery of recommending the use of wool pads with that (though I've done OK with M105/4" wool via PC). By rotary, sure, do the initial, serious correction via wool. It runs nice and cool, for one thing.



HLxDrummer said:
Now my next question, what is different/bad about cars that have been repainted? Just inconsistent? Or is there usually less clear or something? My friend wants his car detailed, but it's been repainted a TON of times.
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There's originality to consider; a collector's car isn't the same with a repaint because it's not "original" any more.



And repaints seldom match 100%, nor are they usually as durable as factory paint. That's not the painter's fault, it's a different paint technology (factory paint is baked at higher temps for one thing). They might be thicker/thinner than the factory paint too, another wildcard you have to consider when doing correction.



And most painters don't disassemble/strip to ensure it's painted the way the factory did it (glass out, trim off, all work done on bare metal, etc.). Often the "danger zones" like around edges are thinner than a factory paintjob.



Hey, don't get me wrong, most of my vehicles have had some paintwork. [Stuff] happens.



I guess if the damage isn't too bad, you can probably keep going until it looks perfect again, huh?
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Heh heh, yeah...but as soon as you think that's a good, safe, rule-of-thumb you run into some situation where there isn't as much clear as you expected :grinno:
 
HLxDrummer said:
I thought SwirlX was a less aggressive polish compared to UC, though?
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It is. Use Swirlx first. If it's not getting the job done then break out the UC. Finish with the SwirlX if needed.
 
Accumulator said:


I'm pretty sure that that he's using a PC/etc., and I'd be leery of recommending the use of wool pads with that (though I've done OK with M105/4" wool via PC). By rotary, sure, do the initial, serious correction via wool. It runs nice and cool, for one thing.







There's originality to consider; a collector's car isn't the same with a repaint because it's not "original" any more.



And repaints seldom match 100%, nor are they usually as durable as factory paint. That's not the painter's fault, it's a different paint technology (factory paint is baked at higher temps for one thing). They might be thicker/thinner than the factory paint too, another wildcard you have to consider when doing correction.



And most painters don't disassemble/strip to ensure it's painted the way the factory did it (glass out, trim off, all work done on bare metal, etc.). Often the "danger zones" like around edges are thinner than a factory paintjob.



Hey, don't get me wrong, most of my vehicles have had some paintwork. [Stuff] happens.







Heh heh, yeah...but as soon as you think that's a good, safe, rule-of-thumb you run into some situation where there isn't as much clear as you expected :grinno:
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Yep, G110. No wool for a DA?



Me and a friend were just discussing how most painters can't bake the paint like the factory can, that's a good point. Also a great point about the edge/etc. Thanks for all the great tips!



I thought my car was all original single stage red paint, then I went to buff the quarter and my pad didn't go red and I couldn't get ANY correction. Probably repainted but I wonder why it was harder. Guess maybe the clear is harder than the factory paint even with the factory paint being baked.



Don't jinx me with that last comment! lol :p



nonsensez9 said:
It is. Use Swirlx first. If it's not getting the job done then break out the UC. Finish with the SwirlX if needed.
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Gotcha :) Least aggressive first!





Thanks for all the tips guys! This isn't one of the most active forums I'm on, but this one always has helpful/friendly people :clap:
 
jordanrossbell said:
The swirls could have been underneath the clear if it has been repainted. That coudl possibly be why you didnt see ANY improvement.
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Well, I was going at it pretty lightly with SwirlX (first time buffing, and scared lol), but it really didn't do ANYTHING. I'll give it another go in the spring if I feel daring and see what happens.



It's strange you can't even tell that the quarter has clear while nothing else has it.
 
HLxDrummer said:
Yep, G110. No wool for a DA?
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The PFW in 3.5" can work very well and are as safe (safer?) than orange (let alone yellow!) foam.



But the 4" Edge/Cyclo yellow and blue wool pads really *can* bite you, leaving issues that you'll have a terrible time resolving. I use 'em, but I've been doing this stuff since forever too.



I wouldn't try any other wool pads via your DA (BTDT and I wasn't happy).



I don't even think you oughta try the SurBufs until you have a lot more experience.



I hope the preceding didn't sound condescending, I just know (from experience) how things can go wrong and if you can do OK while avoiding the big problems then so much the better IMO.





I thought my car was all original single stage red paint, then I went to buff the quarter and my pad didn't go red and I couldn't get ANY correction. Probably repainted but I wonder why it was harder. Guess maybe the clear is harder than the factory paint even with the factory paint being baked.
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Noting how all generalizations leave a lot to be desired....*generally* most single stage paints are softer than most basecoat/clearcoats. The big exception is single stage *white* which is usually about as hard as paint gets.



Don't jinx me with that last comment! lol :p
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Heh heh...but ya see, that's just the way it goes :D



So, I'd take all the Autopian perfectionism you see here with a grain of salt and just try to get *your* car looking OK to *you* without going overboard.
 
Well, I haven't been on the forums much in the past few months (college - just got on break) so I'll have to look into all those products/acronyms. Thanks for all the tips though, and no offense taken or anything. I know pretty much zip about detailing/paint and most of the stuff I've learned I learned from here :)



My Dad does body work so if I go through my paint it's not the end of the world, but I would prefer to not ruin it :p
 
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