How do you guys do it?

O

OnTheSpotMobile

New member
I normally just do daily drivers, which in my area are just regular cars that cost under $35,000 new. But last week I was so lucky (or thought I was) to get someone with a collector car that was actually worth some money. This is a guy that drives his genuine 69' Chevelle about 3000 miles each year travelling around to go to shows or hang around with car clubs. Now on to the work.



The owner called me and was looking to have the car polished as well as some dust nibs removed from the paint job. The car had been painted a few years prior and most of the dust nibs were on the trunk lid. He said in the past he's had other cars fully wet sanded as well, but he just wanted the dust nibs out of this one. The car was also covered in wash marring and some RIDS. So I went around the vehicle and wet sanded out all of the bad areas, and did my thing for the next four days. As I went along, I kept spotting more dust nibs on every single part of the vehicle, right down to the rocker panels. This was a contributing factor in taking nearly all week to complete this car. I put a huge amount of care in detail in this job without even really noticing how long it was taking.



Finally at the end of four long days I finished up the final touches and called the owner in. He walked around the car and stared at it for a while looking disappointed. When I asked him if he was happy all he said was "I wish I would have had the whole car wet sanded". I only asked him for $300 for the job because of my nostalgia for the car alone. I was thinking he would offer a tip or something once he saw the car. The owner said "I think $250 would be fair" and he handed me the $250 and walked away.



I felt miserable all weekend after this experience. My back is still killing me from all the work involved this week. I doubt that I will ever go anywhere near one of these cars again! I'll stick to my daily drivers. I would have made more money working at a coffee shop this week, but I'll admit I didn't do this one for the money alone.



IMG_1833.jpg




Here is the finished product. 99.9% correction on this one. Sorry about the bad camera phone pic but I'm not one of those guys that doubles as a pro photographer :)
 
A couple of thoughts:



1) It sounds like you're probably a bit inexperienced doing wet-sanding jobs, and that may have contributed to you not adequately explaining or selling the job to the customer. That's not to say you shouldn't have done the job, but in the future make sure you explain what goes into the job and quote the customer a ballpark price BEFORE the work begins (on a signed work order). If they don't agree with your range, don't take the job. And remember, quote high, and aim to come in under your quote if possible but don't feel bad about charging the quoted price or if you come across something really bad, get the customer's approval to raise the price to cover it.



2) The minute the customer expressed displeasure with the results, you should have immediately offered that you could still do additional sanding, but explained that it would take additional time and cost more. And don't let him be a disrespectful cheapskate. You're running a business, and the price you ask is the price you should expect to be paid -- it is not the customer's prerogative to pay you less without any negotiation. If I had to guess, he would have reacted that way and tried to short you no matter how good the results were.



3) I don't care how much the nostalgia is, you're way undercharging for your work if you only asked for $300.
 
I think the problem is that you say he just wanted a polish and some dust nibs removed, but then you went so much further with the detail and did basically a full correction without getting the customers approval. If I was a customer and wanted x amount of work done, I would not want to pay you for the extra work either without getting my approval first. For this kind of job, you need to inspect the vehicle more thoroughly and point out all the bad areas and then set the price expectation with the customer before you begin any work. And then any additional work you may want to do during the detail needs to be approved first. If he doesn't want extra work done, then don't do it unless you like working for free. I completely understand you having nostalgia for the car and wanting to take it further, but it's your business, you can't let personal feelings control what you do with the car, that needs to be dictated by the customer and how much he wants to spend. Don't let this experience deter you from doing this type of job in the future, learn from it and make changes to the way you quote/do business the next time.
 
I should mention that we did have a proper conversation of what was expected, and I did tell him it would be around $300, and I'm fine with that. I only work 6 months of the year since my area is buried under snow the rest of the time, so this was more of a 'fun project' for me than anything. I got the car to where I wanted to and that is that.



The major disappointment to me was how unhappy the customer seemed to be. I've never experienced a customer that seemed so dissatisfied that he would give me less money than I charged. I'm used to people telling me "Wow I'm totally in love with my car again", not "dam I should have done something else to the car". If you went to the gas station and put $60 in the tank, would you be disappointed to only have to pay $10? I think he must have thought that the reason it took so long was that I was just being slack, or didn't know what I was doing, or something?



I'm not sure what to think. But I'm attempting to get back into my old career (engineering) and moving out of my small town to where that kind of work is. Reserve detailing for side jobs, or just for my own cars. Living is hard around here doing this type of work.



Andrew
 
OnTheSpotMobile said:
I should mention that we did have a proper conversation of what was expected, and I did tell him it would be around $300, and I'm fine with that. I only work 6 months of the year since my area is buried under snow the rest of the time, so this was more of a 'fun project' for me than anything. I got the car to where I wanted to and that is that.



The major disappointment to me was how unhappy the customer seemed to be. I've never experienced a customer that seemed so dissatisfied that he would give me less money than I charged. I'm used to people telling me "Wow I'm totally in love with my car again", not "dam I should have done something else to the car". If you went to the gas station and put $60 in the tank, would you be disappointed to only have to pay $10? I think he must have thought that the reason it took so long was that I was just being slack, or didn't know what I was doing, or something?



I'm not sure what to think. But I'm attempting to get back into my old career (engineering) and moving out of my small town to where that kind of work is. Reserve detailing for side jobs, or just for my own cars. Living is hard around here doing this type of work.



Andrew
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Gotcha, I was thinking it was to do more with the $ amount. Seems you just got one of those people that won't be happy no matter what you do. We've probably all gotten those types and it's def frustrating to deal with them. I've done some major turn arounds and had people act just like that, when any other person would be jumping up and down about how happy they are about it. All you can really do is shake it off and move on and find the next job. It's hard not to take that personally, it happens. I've also spent days wondering what I did wrong when it's nothing I did wrong, but an impossible customer with unrealistic expectations. You get people like that in any business, don't let one person get you down so much. There's a saying, “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.
 
If you discussed a set price before hand I would not release the keys back to the customer until payment was made in full. If there was something actually wrong with the car that is one thing, but if he is just being a cheapskate that won't fly.
 
WCD said:
He had $250 in his pocket, enough said. He did not seem to have the $1200 or so he owed you IMO.
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I had this happen once back in the 90's with an idiot we did a detail for on an old Porsche 928. I can't remember what we did the job for but when he showed up he offered up less than we quoted him and said that was all he had. So I said that if that was all he had and he knew what we quoted him up front he never had any intention of paying in the first place. Locked hi car up in the shop and told him to come back when he had the money and we would be charging him storage fees and placing a lien on the vehicle. He ponied up the rest of the money within the hour.
 
Bingo.



If you told him the price was $300, you should not have released the vehicle back to him without full payment, dissatisfied or not.



He even admitted it was HIS mistake, by not having the full car sanded.



Sorry bud, but you got sucker punched here.
 
That guy was playing you. He's got a car with dust nibs from several years ago, and as you say, all kinds of RIDS from improper washing. So this guy really doesn't care that much about a perfect paint job and doesn't want to pay for it or else he would have had it wet sanded years ago. I bet he's telling all his buddies how his car looks great now, and how some "moron" worked on it all week for only $250.
 
There will always be people that will downplay your effort and work to make you feel insecure and unsure about your work in the hopes that they will get a better deal. As a technician I get this all the time, best to be a polite hardass. Even then you won't have a 100% rating, just keep on rolling.
 
I'll also add that I see this often at work. I do estimating, and it can be pretty common for some buyers to always tell us (me) that a price is too high, even if we've gone in really tight. Some of them you learn to go in high with the expectation that they will want you to come down to a "target."
 
Its really important for professionals to take adequate time using all 5 senses to inspect a vehicle, especially when you know there will be issues.



If need be, you need to ask if there is a particular budget for the project and along with that budget ask what they believe to be a reasonable time requirement for the given project. After taking that you can adequately quote a range of cost and time for the customer. If it is unrealistic on any respect you can simply walk away. You more than likely did 4 times the amount of work for that price.



I think the person only intended to pay what he paid, and while it is great to get to work on a vehicle you are nostalgic over, its better for your own reputation in the future to make sure you are getting paid what you deserve considering your time, expenses, materials and experience call for.



This is the reason we all document everything we do. This is also why I quote everything in email, and hang on to voicemails until delivery. If a customer didn't pony up - its locked and stored(with applicable fees etc..) until we are square. We do it by being stern, firm and stoich...politely of course.
 
I think we have all had a customer or possibly 2 like this in our past. It only becomes an issue if you dont learn from it. Get your price agreed to in writing. My quotes have the disclaimer "Car keys will not be returned until payment is received in full" That is right above where they sign their name.



Live and learn, and stop being nostalgic. It is a pleasure to work on whatever our dream car is, but you deserve to be paid your quote...and you should quote higher too.
 
Wow, what a douche. I would have kept the keys until he paid me in full unless it was something I did wrong or something we'd both agreed I would do and didn't.



Reminds me of a guy I bought some bike stuff off of through craigslist. He said he'd meet up with people after agreeing on the price and they'd show up $10-20 short. So he's stuck either selling it for less or he ends up wasting his time and gas meeting up with them. There are just way too many despicable people out there like that.
 
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