Hoping to start detailing professionally, advice please!

Smoker said:
Hehehe.



Folks are usually wealthy cos they DONT spend their money.

bear that in mind.
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Meh. The ones I know are pretty freespending, tip each week and a nice big fat tip at Christmas time.



My first real high end customer told me when I tried to give him a discount because he had two cars at once for me to do "A man should never be afraid to charge what he feels his work is worth."
 
And then you try and charge as much as the established detailers and dont get any business.



Once I'm more established, then prices will creep up.

People will come to you on quality of work NOT just price.



In fact, once they see your work, a price increase wont deter them much as long as you have a good reason - new truck/trailer, new shop or whatever.

They dont care as long as theyre still getting their quality.

I run a 'new customer' discount, a 'referral' discount and a 'mulitple vehicle' discount.



Better to have 3 cars done at 60 bucks apiece than 1 at 100 bucks.

Going for low turnover/high profit is great in the short term, but looking at all the REALLY successful businesses its always good prices and a high turnover.
 
Smoker said:




Better to have 3 cars done at 60 bucks apiece than 1 at 100 bucks.

Going for low turnover/high profit is great in the short term, but looking at all the REALLY successful businesses its always good prices and a high turnover.
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I would rather do the one for $100 knowing that with hard quality work and word of mouth I will be doing 2-3 for $100 before long instead of 3 for $60. In business you should always focus on the big picture if you want to grow.
 
Smoker said:
And then you try and charge as much as the established detailers and dont get any business.



Once I'm more established, then prices will creep up.

People will come to you on quality of work NOT just price.

In fact, once they see your work, a price increase wont deter them much as long as you have a good reason - new truck/trailer, new shop or whatever.

They dont care as long as theyre still getting their quality.

I run a 'new customer' discount, a 'referral' discount and a 'mulitple vehicle' discount.

I would not build my business case on this belief. If your customers are coming to you because you are undercutting the competition then that's all they're interested in. The fact that you have a new truck or detailing trailer or new employees or whatever simply will not matter to the customer who is ONLY interested in price. Those expenses are your problem. Attempt to pass that on to your customers and you will find some of them leaving.



Better to have 3 cars done at 60 bucks apiece than 1 at 100 bucks.

Are you sure? Know how to use a calculator? Let's say each detail takes 4 hours. Divide 12 hours into $180 and determine your hourly wage. Now divide 4 hours into $100. Which number is higher? This is how you determine your income. Its not simply gross income. We all have the same 24 hours in a day. Your #1 goal in business is to maximize each hour you work. If that is not your #1 goal then you should probably do something else for a living and detail as a fun hobby. Seriously.



Going for low turnover/high profit is great in the short term, but looking at all the REALLY successful businesses its always good prices and a high turnover.

Exactly what REALLY successful business uses your principles? WalMart? Nordstrom? Dell? Microsoft? GE? Southwest Airlines? Give me a few companies that use the "good price/high turnover" concept. All the companies I mentioned became successful because they offered a top notch product at a competitive price and they service their customers so well that people keep coming back. Is that not the business concept you want to mimic?
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SO its better to do one $100 detail A DAY than 3 $60 ones ?



Bear in mind in my book a $60 detail is not as thorough and takes alot less time.



There will be ALOT more $60 customers out there than $100 ones.

Do i sit around waiting for the golden geese or do i cater for the folks with a little less money while I've nothing better to do ?



I actually price jobs on an individual basis, with $60 as the starting point.



Anyways.



Word of mouth takes a while to propagate, and while its fine for well established companies to charge nice prices, us just starting out have to find customers wherever we can.



Supermarkets use 'loss leaders' to entice new customers into the store.

Once they get them there then they are alot more likely to spend more cash.

Beleive it or not, people are pretty faithful to places they TRUST.

To trust them, they have to use them.

To use them they have to have a reason.

That reason is the price.



How can they go by my quality of work if theyve never seen it ??



I could say Turtle Wax was the best product on the planet .... who would believe me ?



Basically, I'm doing work for an 'introductory price' to get my name known and my order book filled up.

Time will tell if my work will enable me to charge a higher price once my credentials are well established.



I'll come back to you in a years time with how I do.......



**edit**



Just as a thought - who is the more successful car manufacturer ?



Ford with its nice cheap n cheerful cars and huge sales or Rolls Royce with its beautiful quality, expensice tag and low sales.
 
You said that over time your prices would "creep up" so I assume that there would be an equal or similar amount of work for both the $60 and the $100 detail. You are better off getting more money per customer than more customers. If you are doing a wash, cut, polish, and wax you could charge a little more than $60. That is a lot of work and you should not sell yourself short. You should show your customers the difference between yourself and the powerwash guy with the spray wax. Point out how you clean and dress wheel wells and door jambs. Throw in a vacuum and some rain-x with the package to increase the value to the client. You should charge for the estimated time it takes to do your work. If you go to a regular car wash, you will see that they charge the same or more per hour of labour. Ask them how much it costs for a layer of paste wax on your car.



It doesn't really matter if there are more $60 customers out there than $100 customers. There are more $25 customers as well. Instead of waiting for the golden geese to roll in, use your time to market and promote yourself.



As far as which car company is more successful, there are many ways to look at it.



Ford sells millions of cars for a relatively small profit but regularly cuts tens of thousands of jobs or creates jobs depending on the market. They spend millions in advertising and incentives so things are usually up and down. Small changes to production can make or break the bottom line for them.



Rolls Royce usually seems to have a high demand for its products regardless of what price tag is involved. They never have to worry about the economy effecting their sales with the wealthy clients who replace their vehicles often. They do not need to advertise and they are in no rush to get new models on the street. They are in a market that is not as competitive as the pickup truck market is.
 
Smoker,



You are not a mfr of a product. You are a provider of a service. A service that most car owners don't really need. They have to want your service to hire you. You can use price to reel them in or you can use quality and expertise. Sounds to me like all you've got to sell is price, which is fine. But when the day comes when you decide to stop selling on price and start selling on quality, do not be surprised if some of your regular customers leave you.



Since you are a service provider the Ford vs. Rolls Royce comparison is a poor one. They design, manufacture, and sell products. You do none of those things. The easiest way to be successful in the service industry is to model yourself after successful companies in the same industry. They've figured out how to make a profit, all you have to do is copy them.



Sounds to me like you've got your mind made up as to how you are going to run your business. Good luck.



My interest in this discussion is at an end. But I hope others reading this consider all the points made here and decide for themselves how they want to build a business plan that will succeed. Read books, take a community college course on how to start a business, model yourself after well known service companies and employ as many of their strategies as possible. Car detailing is easy. Being a successful businessman is not.
 
Smoker-you would do well to heed Bretfaz's advice. Competing on price is the wrong way to go. I know from experience and when I raised my prices to more in line with what everyone else was charging, I picked up a lot of business because a lot of people wouldn't call me, thinking I was too cheap to do good work. I did lose some customers, like a used car lot, but considering I was going from trashed out Corsicas to Mercedes and Lexus' that took less time to detail, it was definitely worth it.



You also need to make sure you make enough to pay your income tax. Remember, when you are self employed, you have to pay both sides of FICA and file quarterly. Don't charge enough and you may get caught short.



Do what you want though, if you feel you must compete on price, I won't stop you, I just thought you should know that I tried to do the same and it just doesn't work.
 
Thing is, our local detailing shops charge around 70-80 bucks for the same service I give.



Should i charge more than them ?

Theyre well established, I'm not ......



Why would a customer come to me when im dearer than a nice shiny shop where they can sit and drink coffee while theyre car gets done.



I've dont my price research for my area and set my prices accordingly.



I really dont wanna charge the same or more than they do.

Thats my reasoning.

Maybe when I get more jobs (actually ANY) doing Mercedes and Porsches, where they give me a nice fat tip, i'll rethink my pricing.



I presume you both detail for a living, not 'on the side' , was just wondering.



As for the income tax thing - do you actually declare every single job ?
 
As for the income tax thing - do you actually declare every single job ?
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Yes.



Do you have to? No, I suppose you don't. I don't want to get into this argument though. It's been beaten to death already, do a search for it.



I will just say that it's probably in your best interest to "declare every single job".:xyxthumbs
 
Smoker said:
Thing is, our local detailing shops charge around 70-80 bucks for the same service I give.



Should i charge more than them ?

Theyre well established, I'm not ......



Why would a customer come to me when im dearer than a nice shiny shop where they can sit and drink coffee while theyre car gets done.



I've dont my price research for my area and set my prices accordingly.



I really dont wanna charge the same or more than they do.

Thats my reasoning.

Maybe when I get more jobs (actually ANY) doing Mercedes and Porsches, where they give me a nice fat tip, i'll rethink my pricing.



I presume you both detail for a living, not 'on the side' , was just wondering.



As for the income tax thing - do you actually declare every single job ?
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It's been said over and over here so I won't beat a dead horse as you sound like you have your mind made up already. I have been detailing professionally for almost 10 years and have keenly observed many, many new guys like yourself trying to break into the industry. Unfortunately, NONE of them are still around after 10 years. Quite a telling number isn't it? I learned very quickly that if you don't charge a decent price you will not survive this business. Your logic tells you that you would rather do 3 $60 details rather than 1 $100 detail. That makes no sense to me personally as if you do the math and you do 2 $100 details per day for five days and 3 $60 details for five days what is the end result. If you do the $100 details you do only 2/3 of the work and get paid $100 more - think about it. Isn't that the whole point of owning your own business? You've got to be a good businessman and a great detailer to make it in this business so think about it and good luck.
 
O dear ....



LOOK.



I'm just starting out.



No-one knows me or my work.



If i charge $100 a shot then ill still be sat waiting for the phone to ring this time next year.



Firstly, you cant compare prices across cities, every area has its own price structure.

Ive researched this and priced accordingly.



Secondly, if i do details at $60 i can quickly start filling up my order book, spread the word, show off my quality of work etc etc.

Better to have 3 $60 a day than NO $100 customers.



Now you get where I'm coming from ????



Always makes me giggle when 'pros' give it the 'Ive been doing this 400 years'



I was in my former profession for 13 years and met many a grizzled old 'pro' who had absolutely no freaking idea what they were doing.



Just because someones new to something, doesnt mean they are crap.



Amen .....

Now can we be nice ?



p.s. I'm booked up for the next two weeks and only been doing this a month.
 
Something else that has to be considered is the market. Smoker and I are working the exact same streets. I've been feeling good about getting $80 - $120 per car for what I consider to be a pretty complete detail. I know I've done a couple jobs where I should have been able to charge a lot more. This isn't Beverly Hills we are working here. A lot of the jobs I do are for guys making $9 bucks an hour but know its important to protect their investment in their car. I think that if you are going to run an effective business then you need to standardize your prices, but when you are getting started and its not really an official business yet, then you can probably get away with testing the waters and seeing what people will pay. Standardized pricing is a must for a full blown business though. I'm sure that is the road that Smoker is heading on.
 
Originally posted by smoker

Just because someones new to something, doesnt mean they are crap.
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Uh, no one is saying that. We are just cautioning you about trying to sell your work solely on low pricing. I know what you mean about trying to pick up some initial business, but you'd do a lot better if you want to go that route by setting your prices at $80 and offering a 15% discount. That way you have a higher starting price and when you have some repeat business and referrals, you can end the discount and you can have your higher price without actually having to raise it.



If you start off at $60 and then try to raise it in a few months, you may get some backlash, but if you start off at $80 and offer an introductory discount, then you can maintain a higher price that everyone will be aware of going in.
 
Looks like my thread started quite the discussion. :argue :D



I can certainly see both sides of the argument, but after taking a look at the demographic in this area (at the local mall I spotted a row of 4 MBs in a row, then 2 more, broken only by a BMW in the middle :up) I've set my prices as $30 for a wash and interior vac, and detailing starting at $125, which includes the wash and more interior stuff.



Also, I ordered up all my supplies yesterday. $130 to Coastal Tool, $40 to Meguiars, and $75 to CMA, and at Lowe's today another 50 for a little Shop Vac (the 1.5 hp model... its nice!) and some other random stuff (spray bottles, step ladder etc).



Tomorrow I'm going to Staples to make 250 copies of the flyer I made on my computer (I made them half sheet, so I'll have 500)... and I'll start passing them out this weekend.



Looks like I'll be ready to go soon! I can't wait to get started. :xyxthumbs



I really can't say thanks enough times to all the people here that helped me with all sorts of stuff. You guys are awesome. :bow :xyxthumbs
 
Kyle, I can really relate to how you feel. I'm just starting to get into detailing on the side to make some extra money. I've been watching this thread for quite a while and really appreciate all the responses you've gotten.



The cars that I'm dealing with so far are common stuff (cavaliers, hondas, mustangs, camaros, etc). I started with my car and my parents cars and then a couple guys from work wanted to know how much I charge, and now I'm getting calls from people I don't even know. If you'd like, I can e-mail you my price list.



As for the taxes thing, up here it's a little different. I just put approximately what the total income I make on the small side stuff into the "other income" catagory and bite the bullet. So far, it's only hurt me one year. Good luck with anything you take on.:xyxthumbs
 
Scottwax said:
I know what you mean about trying to pick up some initial business, but you'd do a lot better if you want to go that route by setting your prices at $80 and offering a 15% discount.
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15% of 80 is 12 bucks discount.. nigh on the 60 im charging.



I dont actually have a hard and fast pricing structure, it goes by car condition and the amount of work the customer wants.

Things START at 60 and go up from there, unless all they want is a wash.

At which point i usually send em to Sonic .. (yay that place has given me business already!)

For just washes youll never compete with the '2 guys and a bucket' brigade (i think they do em for 18 bucks here)



Anyways ....



I wouldnt charge a guy buying and selling cars, wanting a quick 'shine' the same as someone with his pride n joy thats been a bit neglected.



Itll be the same with chips and scratches once thats up and running ....



I agree that eventually 'the' name will demand a higher price, but until I've earned that name i'll play it by ear.

I know i do a good job, its convincing everyone else i do! lol.
 
Originally posted by smoker:

I wouldnt charge a guy buying and selling cars, wanting a quick 'shine' the same as someone with his pride n joy thats been a bit neglected.
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If you can build your business and avoid the dealers, you will be a lot better off. Dealers want you at their beck and call and they don't pay enough. Believe me, cleaning a Corsica that they bought at an auction and is trashed is not worth the $50 they want to pay.



Stick with private owners only if at all possible....I realize you may have to take some dealer business at first to make money, but severe those ties as soon as practicle.
 
Scottwax said:
If you can build your business and avoid the dealers, you will be a lot better off. Dealers want you at their beck and call and they don't pay enough. Believe me, cleaning a Corsica that they bought at an auction and is trashed is not worth the $50 they want to pay.



Stick with private owners only if at all possible....I realize you may have to take some dealer business at first to make money, but severe those ties as soon as practicle.
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What about Limo Companies?
 
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