Honda admits the RL is a flop

[imported_Picus]

Sales figures for RL and competitors in Feb '06 are below - it has been at the bottom of the list since it was released. The RL is a great car, but it is failing pretty badly for Acura overall. I think a large part of that is the styling, and to a lesser extent the lack of a V8. I realize 6's are the volume leaders (525, M35, GS330, etc..), but having an 8 in the model line gives the entire line more prestige. At 50k I personally don't think the RL is that great a deal, but we all know you can find them heavily discounted. Even so they do not seem to be selling well. It's a shame really - SH-AWD is great, the technology (live traffic etc..) is awesome, the interior is beautiful, but exterior styling-wise it is completely eclipsed by the 5-series, M35/45, GS330/430, A6, Mercedes E-class...



Other notes of interest - the Infiniti M will likely overtake the Lexus GS next month which will be a huge accomplishment for Infiniti. Also (even though we all know this), the 5-series is incredibly dominant, probably in large part due to a 3rd trim level, the "get in on the ground floor" 525.



Cheers.



5 = 4,153

E = 2,310

GS = 2,049

M = 2,000

STS = 1,740

A6 = 1,168

RL = 712

 

[imported_Aurora40]

You speak of the fleet and then pick one engine. Look around the rest of the fleet.







As mentioned before, there isn't an AWD system (in NA anyway) that compares to the AWD system in the RL. As far as the navi system, others are playing catch up to a system that Honda has been using since the 90's. It's better now.

I didn't pick an engine. It's the engine in the car the thread is about. The claim is Honda picked a V6 because of their deep-felt concern for fuel economy and happiness. What I'm saying is then they seem to have missed the mark if that's the case, as the fuel economy is nothing to write home about. I have a larger sedan with a V8 that gets the same fuel economy, and it was churned out by evil domestic makers who want to scorch the earth and pollute the skies. You'd think an earth-loving, magic making, wonder company could easily do better if that was their main consideration in engine choice.



As to the AWD, sure, say it's advanced. If you want to say in absolute terms it is the most advanced ever, well, you'd better have some criteria you are using to base that on. Would it be the best system if your goal was to run in the Baja 1000? Or plow roads? Does cost play a factor? Or durability? Or is it just so amazingly advanced that every single vehicle on earth that wants to route power to 4 wheels would be better off if they drop whatever they have and install the RL unit...

 

[SpoiledMan]

According to whom does Honda have the cleanest fleet in the world? The V6 RL is rated at 18/26mpg by the EPA.

I'll refresh your memory. The fleet of cars isn't made up by the one engine that is mentioned in the thread. Do you have anything that says anything different?



The AWD system is mentioned in the context of this car and the competing cars where Honda's system enhances the handling of the car as opposed to making it plow like a pig. It probably wouldn't work too well on a truck though so "best" is subjective if you expand it to all makes/models/styles of vehicles.

 

[imported_Aurora40]

[quote name='Aurora40']According to whom does Honda have the cleanest fleet in the world? The V6 RL is rated at 18/26mpg by the EPA.

I'll refresh your memory. The fleet of cars isn't made up by the one engine that is mentioned in the thread. Do you have anything that says anything different?[/QUOTE]



Those are two independent thoughts, as I explained just a few posts back. One is, according to whom does Honda have the cleanest "fleet"? Two is, if the RL has a V6 as a nod to fuel economy, environmental happiness, etc, then it seems they didn't do so well. It's not bad economy, but it's not great either. Pretty middle-of-the-road.



It seems the answer to the first one is the Union of Concerned Scientists. I guess that raises the question of according to what credible information is that "cleanest fleet" statement true? Though really, what does that even mean? What constitutes a fleet? Is it an average of all the vehicles they make? Is it weighted by sales numbers? Who are you including? Lotus averages 22/29mpg for their entire fleet. What about makers of electric cars?



You asked me for info counter to that claim. I don't have any. I don't have any information about any company having the "cleanest fleet". Therefore I'd never try to make that claim to anyone in any definitive way.



My point is not that the car, the company, or anything is bad. My point is that those claims are over-the-top and can't be backed up. So why make them? If the car is good, it's good. It shouldn't need hype about being the most technologically advanced car in the world from the most huggable car company in the world, to be good.

 

[SpoiledMan]

My point is that those claims are over-the-top and can't be backed up. So why make them? If the car is good, it's good. It shouldn't need hype about being the most technologically advanced car in the world from the most huggable car company in the world, to be good.

If what is speculated actually happens, you will see just how good the AWD system is. The *rumor* is that a FWD version of the car is to appear "soon." If you'd like to know more about the AWD system and it's capabilities take a look over at www.vtec.net. Most of the guys there are pretty objective. I won't however bore everyone here with this.



Happy reading.

 

[Corey Bit Spank]

VTEC.net is quite subjective. At times I think they're just an arm of Honda of North America. This argument is going absolutely no where. Like I said before--you can "prove" anything on the internet. Lets get back to why the RL isn't selling.



A FWD RL? Well, okay. Please inform Suburu that their way of building cars for the past 10 years has been a BIG mistake.

 

[SpoiledMan]

VTEC.net is quite subjective. At times I think they're just an arm of Honda of North America. This argument is going absolutely no where. Like I said before--you can "prove" anything on the internet. Lets get back to why the RL isn't selling.



A FWD RL? Well, okay. Please inform Suburu that their way of building cars for the past 10 years has been a BIG mistake.

*I* know that the AWD system is a big help to this car and how it drives/handles but they have to do something to get the price down and de-contenting is the easiest way. It's speculation that the AWD is one of the things that will go but it seams realistic and logical as I'm sure it's costly.

 

[pocon1]

Well, considering that we have the RDX coming out soon with the same SH-AWD system, I don't think that the RL will lose the AWD.

 

[Corey Bit Spank]

*I* know that the AWD system is a big help to this car and how it drives/handles but they have to do something to get the price down and de-contenting is the easiest way. It's speculation that the AWD is one of the things that will go but it seams realistic and logical as I'm sure it's costly.

Ew leather. Get rid of that, but I'm sure I would be the only person happy about that! I even hate my leather steering wheel...

 

[imported_hadboosttroy]

i am a cloth fan myself, but i highly doubt they will offer a cloth option if that is what you are getting at. heck, you can't even get cloth on a tsx (unfortunately)!

 

[SpoiledMan]

Well, considering that we have the RDX coming out soon with the same SH-AWD system, I don't think that the RL will lose the AWD.

So what would *you* think could be taken out to lower the price significantly? IMHO, I'd have to agree that the AWD system would be first to go. It saves weight, money and isn't needed for most buyers or for that matter even wanted.

 

[LightngSVT]

[quote name='SpoiledMan']So what would *you* think could be taken out to lower the price significantly? /QUOTE]



I would think Leather, AWD, Nav, moon roof would be some big items for starters.

 

[imported_memnuts]

A $40K luxury car without leather interior as a standard feature? That would be a very hard sell IMHO.



Delete AWD and NAV system should cut a few thousands off. The remainder should come from the profit margin created by the duplicity of non-cosmetic parts used from other Hondas. :nixweiss



Wife and I had a 93 Acura Legand 4 door (black of course) for 5 years. A great, dependable, excellent uniquely styled and fun car. It even had a 5 speed. We sold it at 120,000 miles without a problem.

 

[SpoiledMan]

A $40K luxury car without leather interior as a standard feature? That would be a very hard sell IMHO.



Delete AWD and NAV system should cut a few thousands off. The remainder should come from the profit margin created by the duplicity of non-cosmetic parts used from other Hondas. :nixweiss



Wife and I had a 93 Acura Legand 4 door (black of course) for 5 years. A great, dependable, excellent uniquely styled and fun car. It even had a 5 speed. We sold it at 120,000 miles without a problem.

Agreed on all accounts. Take *anything* more away and you have to question calling it a "luxury" car as all the "luxuries" have been taken away.

 

[Corey Bit Spank]

I can assure you that if nobody wants the car for $50,000 with all those features that make it distinct then taking away content isn't going to make people flock by numbers to a car with generic styling and a relatively unsubstantial nameplate.