Honda admits the RL is a flop

It's the TL within the Acura family and the other comparables (doesn't matter what type of car) in the RL's price range that are the reasons for the RL's failure.
 
Well taken. My point is even if you do end up at the dealer cause you think the car is a bargain, it all goes out the window when/if compared to a TL.
 
I test drove both the RL and the GS 300 AWD and I liked the Lexus better on almost all counts. I really liked the RL interior styling more but it felt much smaller. The Acura/Honda electronics were a little better placed but that's the kind of thing you just get used to after driving a car for a while. The Lexus just had a nicer ride and felt a little bit quicker. In the end the Lexus ended up winning my Dad and me over. I'm waiting for Father's day to give it the works. I'll throw up some pics when I do.
 
Just to clarify a few points, since I do sell Acuras and it is my job to know the competition. First of all, of the luxury models that offer a V8, 90% of the consumers choose the V6 option. Second, in my market, Montgomery County, MD, we have not had a problem moving RLs. it is not selling like gangbusters, but it is selling. Third, if you read the article in edmunds.com comparing all-wheel drive sedans, the RL placed first against the BMW 530, Audi A6, Lexus GS300, and Infiniti M35. It also beat those vehicles through the slalom and offered a better price point than any other (the Audi lacked the navi system, but if comparably equipped is more expensive). Finally, the Lexus is our biggest competitor in my region, but even Consumer Reports knocks Lexus for its lackluster handling(also it's slower acceleration times).

Also, about the V6, Honda has the cleanest and most fuel-efficient fleet in the world. It is that commitment to the environment and fuel efficiency that makes the RL a v6.

And another point, the RL has the best technology available. It has the best AWD sytem offered on any production vehicle, the best consumer navi system, Extensive use of aluminum including the hood, roof, trunk, and the entire suspension system. It's V6 also makes 290 hp, which is comparable to many v8s (which you cannot get for anything close to this price range). And for anyone who says there is not much difference between 50k and 60k, try 20%. It adds up.
 
pocon1 said:
Just to clarify a few points, since I do sell Acuras and it is my job to know the competition. First of all, of the luxury models that offer a V8, 90% of the consumers choose the V6 option. Second, in my market, Montgomery County, MD, we have not had a problem moving RLs. it is not selling like gangbusters, but it is selling. Third, if you read the article in edmunds.com comparing all-wheel drive sedans, the RL placed first against the BMW 530, Audi A6, Lexus GS300, and Infiniti M35. It also beat those vehicles through the slalom and offered a better price point than any other (the Audi lacked the navi system, but if comparably equipped is more expensive). Finally, the Lexus is our biggest competitor in my region, but even Consumer Reports knocks Lexus for its lackluster handling(also it's slower acceleration times).

Also, about the V6, Honda has the cleanest and most fuel-efficient fleet in the world. It is that commitment to the environment and fuel efficiency that makes the RL a v6.

And another point, the RL has the best technology available. It has the best AWD sytem offered on any production vehicle, the best consumer navi system, Extensive use of aluminum including the hood, roof, trunk, and the entire suspension system. It's V6 also makes 290 hp, which is comparable to many v8s (which you cannot get for anything close to this price range). And for anyone who says there is not much difference between 50k and 60k, try 20%. It adds up.
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this is pretty much hitting the nail on the head :up
 
if you are into mugen stuff:



wp01102412.jpg
 
The Moderators have removed some posts in this thread regarded to be inflammatory.



C'mon folks, we all have opinions. No reason to get personal. Stay on track.



Peace.
 
pocon1 said:
Also, about the V6, Honda has the cleanest and most fuel-efficient fleet in the world. It is that commitment to the environment and fuel efficiency that makes the RL a v6.

And another point, the RL has the best technology available. It has the best AWD sytem offered on any production vehicle, the best consumer navi system, Extensive use of aluminum including the hood, roof, trunk, and the entire suspension system. It's V6 also makes 290 hp, which is comparable to many v8s (which you cannot get for anything close to this price range).
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I'd never guess you sold these for a living with down-to-earth claims like that... :rolleyes: According to whom does Honda have the cleanest fleet in the world? The V6 RL is rated at 18/26mpg by the EPA. That's not bad, but hardly amazing, especially for a car with only 99 cubic feet of interior space.



As to the best technology available, according to whom? What's the criteria you are using to say they have the best AWD, the best navi, etc?
 
Aurora40 said:
I'd never guess you sold these for a living with down-to-earth claims like that... :rolleyes: According to whom does Honda have the cleanest fleet in the world? The V6 RL is rated at 18/26mpg by the EPA. That's not bad, but hardly amazing, especially for a car with only 99 cubic feet of interior space.



As to the best technology available, according to whom? What's the criteria you are using to say they have the best AWD, the best navi, etc?
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regarding cleanest fleet, they certainly do, you can find info all over the internet, just do a search.
 
You can find info all over...wherever...to prove anything.



The RL just isn't flashy enough for the market. The TL is probably overstyled. Probably. It looks good, but some parts are a bit much. That's what the luxury buyer wants now. They want some ugly in their luxury cars. It's kind of like picking the "puke mauve" color. It works on 5 series but NOT on Chevy Aveos. No. Perception!
 
From the Union of Concerned Scientists (From 2002):

http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_re...e-in-environmental-ranking-of-automakers.html

If you read it the article states that Honda is the cleanest U.S. fleet by a wide margin. However, others are catching up because of higher standards applied at the state and federal level. This was from 2002, however, things have not changed that much.



As far as the high technology, cnet.com rated it as the tech car of the year.



For the navi system, the database has over 7 million points of interest and is able to be adjusted on the fly, unlike most other units. The Acura RL also has over 600 voice commands that are easy to use. The Lexus database has only 5 million points of interest and the Mercedes has less than 2 million locations



The AWD system has the ability to route all of the rear-wheel drive power to one wheel or the other as necessary. The rear system also has a secondary gearset that can accelerate the outside rear tire by up to 5% to push the car out of corners. As everyone knows, the outside rear tire will have the best traction when acceralating out of a corner. No other manufacturer has this ability. for instance, the Audi only distributes power front to rear and then uses the traction control system for the rest of it.
 
Aurora40 said:
According to whom does Honda have the cleanest fleet in the world? The V6 RL is rated at 18/26mpg by the EPA.
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You speak of the fleet and then pick one engine. Look around the rest of the fleet.



As to the best technology available, according to whom? What's the criteria you are using to say they have the best AWD, the best navi, etc?
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As mentioned before, there isn't an AWD system (in NA anyway) that compares to the AWD system in the RL. As far as the navi system, others are playing catch up to a system that Honda has been using since the 90's. It's better now.:)
 
pocon1 said:
From the Union of Concerned Scientists (From 2002):

http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_re...e-in-environmental-ranking-of-automakers.html

If you read it the article states that Honda is the cleanest U.S. fleet by a wide margin. However, others are catching up because of higher standards applied at the state and federal level. This was from 2002, however, things have not changed that much.



As far as the high technology, cnet.com rated it as the tech car of the year.



For the navi system, the database has over 7 million points of interest and is able to be adjusted on the fly, unlike most other units. The Acura RL also has over 600 voice commands that are easy to use. The Lexus database has only 5 million points of interest and the Mercedes has less than 2 million locations



The AWD system has the ability to route all of the rear-wheel drive power to one wheel or the other as necessary. The rear system also has a secondary gearset that can accelerate the outside rear tire by up to 5% to push the car out of corners. As everyone knows, the outside rear tire will have the best traction when acceralating out of a corner. No other manufacturer has this ability. for instance, the Audi only distributes power front to rear and then uses the traction control system for the rest of it.
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While all of this is no doubt true, the fact of the matter is that the car isn't selling nearly to what Honda's hopes would be. I think the basic reason remains what Corey's been saying all along, the car doesn't look the part. It doesn't look like a $50,000 luxury sedan. The 5 series does, the GS does, the M Infiniti does (which is a huge acheivement for Infiniti.



When all is said and done, there really isn't that much difference between $50k and 60k really, especially when the target is really something like $56k. Acura may get buyers because the RL is less, but they get buyers that never were interested in really paying to have a prestigious car in the first place, so they're not really taking buyers from MB, Lexus, or BMW.



How often do you see people trading 5 series BMWs in on RLs? Seriously be honest, the answer is extremely rarely. They do however come in on M35s and M45s and GS300s and 430s. Even on Cadillac STSs. Acura's just never been able to shove over that credibility benchmark to be able to move a car this expensive.
 
I miss my old '97 RL. :( This thread brings back memories of that car.



I don't mind the redesigned RL. I think it's a technological powerhouse, and squeezing 290 HP out of a 6-cylinder engine is just amazing. Maybe it doesn't have the gaudy styling that you see on a Mercedes or Lexus, but it still is a finely crafted vehicle.



I hate to get dragged into this, but Acura's screwup goes way before the RL. The fact remains that the Legend was the best selling sedan for Acura. When the Legend was killed off, so was Acura's sales.
 
Acura_RL said:
..... Acura's screwup goes way before the RL. The fact remains that the Legend was the best selling sedan for Acura. When the Legend was killed off, so was Acura's sales.
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...and one of the reasons I hold on to my '95 Legend!:)
 
Actually, Acura Posted its best year ever, for 2005



Acura Sets All-Time Sales Record for 2005

Record Sales of RL, TL and TSX Make 2005 Best Year in Acura History

Downloads



Text only

AcuraDec05Sales.doc 29k











Torrance, Calif. 01/04/2006 -- Driven by record sales of the RL luxury performance sedan, TL performance luxury sedan and TSX sports sedan, Acura posted its third consecutive year of record sales, setting a new all-time annual sales record. Year-end Acura sales of 209,610 units, up 5.7 percent, shattered the previous annual sales record of 198,919 set in 2004, making 2005 the best year in Acura's sales history.



"Surpassing the 200,000-unit sales mark is a huge milestone for Acura," said **** Colliver, executive vice president, auto sales. "The outlook for 2006 looks even brighter as we kick off Acura's 20th anniversary."



Acura total car sales set a new all-time annual record with sales of 151,662 units, eclipsing the previous record of 143,708 units set in 1991.

The RL luxury performance sedan recorded its best year ever with sales of 17,572 units, surpassing the previous record of 16,004 units set in 1997. For the year, RL sales were up 101.4 percent versus last year.

The TL performance luxury sedan was Acura's top-selling model and recorded its second straight year of record sales with year-end results tallying 78,218 units.

TSX posted record sales and was named to Car and Driver magazine's "10Best Cars" list for the third straight year. Total TSX sales of 34,856 units surpassed the previous record of 30,365 units set last year and increased 15.2 percent versus last year.

Additional information and downloadable high-resolution images are available at www.acuranews.com.



Monthly percentages are based on 27 selling days for this month versus 27 days for last December. Year-to-date percentages are based on 307 selling days for 2005 versus 308 for 2004.
 
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that the fact remains that the "RL" has never had a sales year as good as the "Legend."
 
acura really needs to work on their styling. i'm actually a pretty big fan of acuras. i had an integra when i was younger. but as i've gotten older and more into luxury cars, the acuras really haven't kept up in styling. their cars DO look like slightly more expensive hondas rather than a seperate and distinct luxury brand. infiniti and lexus don't look as close to their mass-brand vehicles as acuras do. honda has always been somewhat stubborn when it comes to adapting to the market. i really wish they would just do it though. put a v8 in. even if most people don't buy it, the v8 would have a halo effect on the rest of the line. claim some sort of performance crown and then the rest of the brand picks up on it.



infiniti seemed to just wander around for a while until they got the styling hit of the g35 coupe. from there, they just replicated that theme in a bunch of different forms and it's been successful for them. acura needs to develop a better design language just for that brand.
 
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